Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

Wow! You are blaming your DIL and yet it was your own son who didn't invite you to the wedding because you are too judgemental. How is that her fault? You'd never even met her at that point.

There is obviously a lot of background as to how you have treated your son. For him not to want you or his brothers at his own wedding is very telling of something having happened between you all.

I do get you are worried about your grandchildren travelling to Ukraine. However, if you genuinely want to salvage any sort of relationship with your son and his family then you need to stop bad mouthing his wife and start making an actual effort.

But you said the journey was unfair on the children in your post! Not that is was because the country was unsafe.

It is also not your choice. Her family still live there. You DIL feels it is ok to take them to see her family. Plenty of children still live war tore countries! Its for your DIL and DS to way up the risk of taking them to see her family.

Honestly if you were my MIL or even my mother, and voiced those sort of objections to a decision I have made on what is obviously a hard decision (to see family or never go and visit them), I wouldn't see you either to be honest.

OP, I understand why you are concerned about the trip to Ukraine. But by criticising her decision, you are essentially telling your dil that she is a bad mum. I can see why this will have upset her. Please try and understand this.

Look at it from your son's point of view. His mum is highly critical and judgemental about his wife, her age, her culture, her family; and clearly has no respect for her at all. He loves his wife, and she is, rightly, more important to him than his mum. His mum shows no interest in wanting a friendly relationship with his whole family and just wants to see his children, as though his wife is some kind of brood mare.

I'm impressed he's brought the children to see you at all!

Most days?! This sounds utterly suffocating.

I am guessing that you were unable to hide your feelings when your son met a Ukrainian woman and settled there. The disapproval travelled down the phone to your son and his wife. That’s why they didn’t think you would be a positive influence on the wedding day.

What a shame. For your sake, have some humility, reflect and apologise and try and build some bridges. I hope it’s not too late. It’s not just about arrangements, gifts and half term. There are bigger issues to resolve first.

If your son said that to his brother, he must think that you are a judgemental person and he probably thought that he couldn't trust you not be be critcal and judgemental at the wedding.

It’s not fair on the children to effectively go home, because you state they were living there before the war started? They must all miss their home country terribly, you need to accept that their culture and their normal has changed so much, it must be daunting.
you honestly sound like you need to step back and look at your opinions, how you are voicing them and if you are being fair.

OP you won't admit to this.
I think maybe you held or hold views about foreigners that your son knows about and shared with his wife.
You think she's a gold digger don't you?
Because she's from what you perceive as a poor part of Europe, accented English. Ten years younger so married an older man for security?

So the DIL will travel 24 hours and do a difficult journey to visit her family with the children, but your son won't even travel an hour to bring the kids to see you.

I can see why you're upset at the disparity. It could mean one of two things imo - your son doesn't value family and so won't put the effort in, or your opinions have annoyed him so much that he's staying away.

So, by your own admittance, you are judgemental, opinionated, critical of their choices and ignore their wishes by just turning up at their house unannounced.

I can absolutely see why they avoid you. Thank goodness they have the sense to keep you at arms length.

This will only be fixed by you understanding the impact your actions have on them, sincerely apologising and changing your attitude towards them ( and keep your insufferable opinions to yourself).

The son is probably the family scapegoat .

You are blaming the wife for everything. Your son doesn’t want to see you because of your behaviour. It is not down to his wife. If you were nice people and pleasant to be around they would want to see you. Stop the expensive gifts. Offer a profuse apology to your son and DIL. Be kind and friendly. Stop judging them. If you want RESPECT show it to other people.

It's not your choice to make, you're not their parents. You can either take a step back, keep your opinions and judgement to yourself and try to build a relationship or you can continue with this and probably drive them completely away.

Are you an open minded family.
He's clearly embarrassed of you and your family.

This is what I think

People don't just cut off their family and distance themselves for no reason... there's definitely some info missing here.

Op, if you want to see your son and GC you should get ready to apologise ( sincerely) to your DS and DIL .

If you want a relationship, you are going to have to keep your opinions to yourself. They might be perfectly justified opinions, but it doesn’t really matter. Your son is an adult and gets to make bad decisions.

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if it is only an hour away though, visits don’t need to be such a big deal. Do the children have activities? Do they play football or do gymnastics? Ask if you can attend a game or come watch a practice from the parent’s gallery. Yes, an hour of travel to come stand on the sidelines at a child’s football match. Tell the kids you love them and then go home. Repeat. After that is successful, maybe one day you can meet up at a park which will allow more interaction . Let your son slot you into his busy weekends with the children.

Show that contact can be pleasant and easy.

We initially expressed some concern that this may be the case, it was from wanting protect DS rather than being prejudiced. When we were told we were wrong we apologised.

Imagine the stress your DIL must've been under when they had to move to the UK, the worry about her home country and family. Moving her young family to a new country and city, having to make new friends, get used to our weird British ways. Then on top of all that she has a MIL who made it clear she doesn't approve of her from the outset. Choosing not to spend time with you was probably a very sensible choice on her part to reduce her stress, given that so many other things have been out of her control.

You sound a bit like my mum. We have a relationship now because I've had a lot of therapy and learned to manage her. My brothers both moved far away (one to another country) partially to put some distance between them.

It is very painful and difficult to grow up in a household where you are criticised all the time. It's even more painful when you are an adult and a parent still tries to control and manipulate you into doing/being what they want. The fact that your son already thought youd be judgemental about his choice speaks volumes about the type of parent you were and continue to be.

My mum didn't speak to me for 2 years when I met my husband and told me the rest of my family didn't want anything to do with me. It was a very painful place to be.

I would guess that you talk negatively about your son and dil to the rest of the family too.

Learn your place.

It's interesting that the brother knew about the wedding but also didn't mention it to the op beforehand.

Dear OP - you may not be aware of the general characteristic Ukrainians seem to have - they are very determined, strong and even aggressive, individually and as a people(tho' this is a generalisation). If they can stand up to Russia virtually alone I guess DIL will have no trouble standing up to you if you offended her! By the way I think not all the country is being attacked constantly though no doubt this can happen - but everyone whose anyone seems to go there even Sarah, Duchess of Edinburgh went - though they are usually fleeting visits! DIL must be very worried about family's situation so you could be more supportive - do you ask how they are? Can you give them material help regarding finance for a better property to live in - money usually keeps one in touch with one's children I find.

OP I have a very judgemental mother and my relationship is strained. I did consider not having her at my wedding. Unfortunately I did and if i could go back in time I wouldn't have invited her. She ruined our wedding.

Some things resonate here:

You mention the money you spend in gifts- do you think your son is interested in how much you can spend in gifts instead of what way you talk about his wife?

You mentioned her age. You mention how she brings the kids to her mums. You have no idea how you would react if your country would be at war. Stop judging, it is none of your business. Its entirely their decision. You demand seing their children as if that's something you are entitled to.

You need to read your posts and try to find why so many people here says they can see your son's point if view about having low contact with you. Before he takes you out of their lives completely try to see what you are doing wrong.

He is doing what I'm doing atm. He visits very little because he feels guilty of cutting communication entirely with you. But must be a pain to put up with your disapproval every time he sees you. If you want a better relationship, stop demanding and start making changes asap.