Excluded from grandchildren's life

[GrandmDEA]

I'm going to try and keep this short but I have 3 sons, one of them moved abroad many years ago for work, it was meant to be short term but he fell in love with a girl 10 years his junior, married her 9 months later and they had a child a year after that. A couple of years ago this same country that they were living in and she was from ended up in a war, they moved to the UK with their 2 children immediately. They live in London, fairly central, they pay way below market rate in rent as someone he works with owns it but it is a tiny 2 bed and they have 2 children, one who has just turned 5 and the other just turned 3.
We have always had issues with them, we weren't invited to the wedding, in fact we didn't know they were married until after the wedding happened! We had never met her. She clearly has no respect for our family but we try to keep the peace.
This year we have seen our grandchildren 2 times, we only live an hour away but they don't let us visit, if we show up uninvited on the weekend, they are always busy. If we ask to go up to see them it is always "no the house is too small for guests". My sons is meant to bring them to see us once a month but most times he ends up coming alone with some excuse. We haven't seen his wife since Christmas!
Our son was meant to be bringing them to see us tomorrow, we have spent £100s on birthday gifts for them as they both had birthdays at the very end of August. Today he has messaged saying sorry we can't come the girls will be too tired after a week at school/nursery, we will see you during half term! This happens every time.
We have had some big fall outs over decisions they make such as his wife continues to take their tiny children to a war torn country to visit her family, putting them through 24 hours of travel to get there and back! My son never goes with her and I don't think he actually agrees with her but lets her do it anyway. It stresses me out when she takes them to there, I worry for their safety so I have voiced that I don't agree with it. We obviously also got off on the wrong foot with the lack of wedding invite to anyone in our family. We only mention things that concern us out of care but it is always taken as an insult.

AIBU to be really hurt they keep excluding us? The grandchildren have spent several weeks this year with their maternal family and they all live in a war torn country, but barely 2 half days with us who live much closer!

Well OP internalised misogyny has done a number on you.

In fact several numbers but basically everything is always the DIL fault right?

I think your DS has her back, which is absolutely right. It's what you would expect from your partner.

It's time to apologise and reset the relationship.

I'm a grandmother and was ready to side with you, but I really can't.

you starting rows with them over their choices will of course mean they don't want to see much of you.

That. I don't always approve of or agree with my DD's choices for my grandchildren, but I keep my mouth shut, or at most (and with extreme tact and sensitivity) might ask 'what if' questions that might encourage her to think of the downsides.

If I caused rows with my clear dislike and opinions, I wouldn't expect to see her and the children much, either.

It's tough being a grandma. You feel just as protective of your grandkids as you did if their parent. But it's not your child/ren and you don't get a say. And if whenever they do see you, there are angry words, they're not going to be in a hurry to see you again.

I'm sorry, this is down to you. The only think I can suggest is that you apologise profusely, mean it, and change your ways.

His reason for not inviting us was "We might be judgemental of his choice"

And he was right

So he thought you were an issue before he even had children....

Your entire OP is judgemental so he isn't wrong. What is paying under the market rate - or her age ( unless she was very young and still a teen when they got married) got to d with anything?

Why did you spend £100s on small children for their birthday? That is not your place and is far too much. Why not spend less and send it so they have it to open on the day.

How much remote access do you have, reading the children a story over facetime can be done anywhere.

Lots of Ukrainians have been back to visit family, not all areas are dangerous and the occasional visit when they live in an otherwise safe place is better than nothing.

I don't think your son likes you or the rest of your family very much and I can kind of see his point.

Let me help you out a little.

1. Your son worried that you would be judgmental of his choices and he was right. Maybe it is time to put this to bed and accept that your DIL is in your life and you need to get on board with it.
2. You don't show up uninvited to someone's house unless you have a long-standing tradition in your and your DiL's families to do so.
3. You don't make comments about your son's and DiL's parenting. This includes comments about their travel to Ukraine.
4. You apologise for your behavior and sit down with both of them to decide how to move forward. Even if it means just a regular video chat with grandkids until you are able to rebuild relationships with your family.

Sorry OP but I can see why they have stayed away, assuming this is real.

You have voiced opinions you should have kept to yourself. You have critisized them and their parenting decisions, all while making out you're 'trying to keep the peace'.

Even before this grandchildren came along, you clearly had a strained and problematic relationshiop with your son to be missed out of the wedding.

All this expression of disapproval has not changed them one bit so has been a pointless cause of bad feeling and now they are getting on with their lives without you.

You have thrown away your chance to have a relationship with your son, daughter-in-law and grandchildren, sadly.

I’m getting that you’re quite opinionated from your post. I imagine the wife can’t deal with you when she has so much more important to think about with her family living in Ukraine. I see her side. We marry men not their mums, if mil is going to be unsupportive there’s no point wasting the energy on a whole other relationship when you have so much on your plate.

The real issue is why doesn’t your son like you enough to see you regularly. I’d concentrate on that.

You are so judgmental and entitled, it's no wonder they keep you at arm's length.

You judge her age and the speed at which they got married.

You blame your lack of wedding invitation on her and describe "no respect" when a) your son is equally responsible and b) maybe they just mirrored your total lack of respect for their relationship.

You don't approve of their flat or life choices.

You think it's acceptable to drive an hour to turn up unannounced. I would consider that incredibly disrespectful. I'd probably let you in the first time and let you know never again - and I'd mean it and wouldn't let you in if you turned up a second time.

You failed to give your grandchildren presents for their birthdays. You're now feeling entitled to manipulate your son to bring the children to you when he reasonably judges it not in their best interests. You seem to feel entitled because you spent money. Your son's attitude reflects well on him - I'm glad he's concerned about his children's wellbeing and not just acquiring material things.

In your DIL's shoes, I can understand not wanting to spend her weekends with you.

Your concern about the DGCs visiting Ukraine is understadable, but you still make it all about you and unfairness relative to your in-laws.

Nothing in the post makes me think badly of your DS or DIL. I hope you take some time to reflect on all the responses on here and consider that this situation is entirely of your own making and it's up to you to reset the relationship, beginning with an apology and some genuine listening.

Your own posts make it crystal clear why you don't see them. I wouldn't go out of my way to see you either.

I have 3 sons, all young adults now. If you want to remain in your son’s life you are going to have to learn to step back and keep your opinions to yourself. Your son has made it clear that his loyalties lie with his wife (as they should) and you are a hairs breadth away from him going non contact with you.

you can worry all you like but he is a grown man and is making his own decisions. Your opinion of his decisions should be kept very firmly within yourself. Don’t even share them with his siblings.

Youve had your children and raised them the way you wanted to. Now it’s his turn to raise his children the way he wants to. If you offer a heartfelt apology (which is so clearly needed) you might even get a better relationship with your dil.

To be honest I doubt you’ve got the self awareness to be able to do this tho’

They don't like you, especially your son, the wife's attitude towards you hasn't been formed without knowing something unpleasant about you. Only you know what that can be.

You sound entitled.
Her kids, if she doesn't want you around then that's her decision.

You sound intrusive - they don't care what you think.

Whose we?
You and who else turns up uninvited?

Get your own life.
Do your other 2 sons bother with you?

Insofar as there is an issue here, it's with your son not your DIL. She presumably takes her kids to her family because she loves her family and they are supportive of her, she doesn't owe you the same, especially as you obviously disapprove of her and her parenting.

If you had a good relationship with your son, you would probably see your grandchildren more. I have some sympathy with you because men are often lazy in relationships and maybe your son is the same.

If it's not just laziness on his part (he can't be bothered to facilitate the grandparent-grandchild relationship), then maybe a starting-point would be to accept that he is an adult and can make his own choices in life, but to tell him how much you would like to be a bigger part of his and the children's lives than you are at the moment and ask what he thinks the best way of achieving this is.

Think that Op may be the problem here.
She doesn’t like her DIL and has made it obvious from the get go hence the lack of invitation to the wedding

There is a lot of 'I want' in your OP. Like you feel your son owes you and should do this or that because you are his parents, rather than son should want to do this or that because he has a loving relationship with his parents. And that is your fault, not your DILs.

what was your relationship with your son before he moved abroad?

You are judgemental about his choice. You are also judgemental now about the choices being made, whether right or wrong.

Why not try not doing that? Regardless of your opinion, say nothing unless asked directly. Don’t turn up uninvited as they clearly don’t like it. Forget about the wedding, it has been and gone . Try and build bridges. Your DIL probably doesn’t visit as she knows you don’t like/judge her. If you lost the attitude, and genuinely tried to get on she might. You might see more of your DGC too.

Is this a reverse?

Also you clearly put all the blame on your son’s wife… that she has no respect for your family rather than your son having no respect. Tbh you just don’t like her much it sounds like. You sound disapproving of the age gap too.

If the parents choose to travel to other countries worn torn or not that is entirely up to them.

It is also your choice to spend hundreds on presents… I wouldn’t even spend hundreds on presents for my own children.

As other’s have said it would be good to hear the other side of the story.

Maybe she is an utter cow. But he is sticking with her. Maybe becuase he knows she will take the kids from him. Maybe it's a dv situation?

Not your children, not your choice. I had a mil like you and am no longer married as my H wouldn’t stand up to her so I took the kids and left.
You need to keep your opinions to yourself if you ever have any chance of any sort of relationship

OP, why post on here. MIL's are hated beyond belief on MN.

According to MN, not matter what you do is wrong, your a MIL and have no rights or expectations.

Cut them off, go NC for you're own MH and WB. Hopefully you have contact with your other children.

Well, I can quite see why. I'd not be happy with you as my MIL either.

You should have kept your opinions to yourself. Turning up uninvited at someone's house is rude - especially when they have children. You're expecting them to just drop everything and be excited because you're there.

My MIL lives in Norway. I know she wanted DH to move back sooner than we are. But she kept her mouth shut and didn't make me feel awful for wanting to sort out my career in the UK first. Because of that, we visit Norway twice a year. I facetime her several times a week with the kids. I've actually become quite good friends with her and text her really regularly - she's lovely. When we do move to Norway in a couple of years, I will absolutely be chuffed to have her close by.

You harping on about a war torn country just reads as you throwing about faux-concern as a mask for disliking your son's choices. Why does it matter that she's 9 years younger? That's hardly a massive age gap.

Btw Op, you are not coming across well at all.
I haven’t heard your dil’s side but I can actually see why she doesn’t want you to be involved in her life. You don’t have anything nice to say about her.
You need to take a long hard look at yourself

OP I think that this goes so much further back than your daughter in law.

your son chose not to invite you to his wedding because he thought you would be judgemental of him. There must be more historical examples for him to have felt this way in the first place. It sounds as though he is trying to protect his new family. How do your family function historically?

This has little to do with your daughter in law I think. You sound very critical in your whole post, but direct it towards your daughter in law as opposed to your son. When people have young children critical or opinionated grandparents rarely do any good. Maybe you could try to find some compassion for your DIL.