Child identifies as a wolf ... WTF?

[Portakalkedi]

Just on Radio 4 now, discussing a child in secondary school who identifies as a wolf, and the school is going along with this. AIBU to think the world (or at least the UK) has gone mad? If said child is living in the woods, catching its own prey etc etc, howling and running with other wolves, which I doubt, then why the hell is anyone going along with it? They are also saying that some others identify as dogs or cats etc. And here was me thinking men 'identifying' as women was bad.

I understand more about how the medical scandal around gender transitioning children unfolded and the factors involved. (Adults justifying their own bad choices; doctors trying to make a name for themselves being "cutting edge"; stupid academic rows and the government being more tolerant of off-label treatments)
I can't see any of those factors in place around "species identity" even if one accepts the premise that children identify as animals and want to medically transition. So I was just trying to understand more about where your concerns originate from.

Thankfully there aren't too many people getting otherkin-affirming (therian- or furry-affirming) surgeries, so on the one hand you're absolutely right to say I'm conflating it all. I'll take that one on the chin.
That said, there are people who do change their bodies to match their animal identity, so it's not unheard of.

The reason I've joined it together though is because the safeguarding risk has the same root cause:
children find themselves being pulled towards a belief that they are in the wrong body, often via gaming communities, anime or similar. And in these communities the whole lot is conflated - all are valid identities. And unfortunately the kink side of things is very close to the surface.

how do you propose that happens?
The protection should be the same as for gender questioning children: the new KCSIE guidance, the Gender Questioning Children guidance (as a general principle about not affirming) and via EHCPs to help any autistic children who might be struggling with body disassociation (occupational therapy) or processing how the language of the species/gender belief can be understood in the context of biological reality (speech and language therapy).

Isn’t that something to do with dogging?

There were some teens at my college that did this with the howling, the 4 of them wore tails on the backs of their pants and skirts. We were all aged about 17, they were bullied (the one time for bullying I did understand) and people thought it was weird as all hell. I'm going to assume as the now 30 odd olds we are that they've grown out of it.

Oh ffs, why is any school enabling this shit?

I'd like to identify as a panda. Sit on my arse all day looking cute and eating, not bamboo of course as that's boring and I don't have the teeth for it. The lack of sex also appeals to me.

Well, if I can identify as a male surely I could also identify as a dog or a cat? My brother actually thought he was a cat when he was younger. In the future we'll probably find a support group for catpeople as well with the NHS having to finance furgrowing etc. It's a crazy world.

I feel like you might be somewhat disconnected from the levels of support available for ND children. If they are not actively suicidal, there is nothing.
Frankly I will worry about "furries" once all the bog standard depressed, anxious, self harming and ND children have been catered for.

Thanks for your concern. I feel like we might be coming from different viewpoints 👍

This thread is so funny. I am dying.

Looping back to the school where there was a child who apparently identified as a cat, even if it didn't happen (the newspaper reports get quite muddled on whether it did or didn't), what clearly did happen was the teacher conflating species belief with gender identity belief - and then going further and conflating a lack of belief in gender identity with homophobia. From an article which contains the original audio:

It begins with the teacher asking the pupil: 'How dare you? You just really upset someone, saying things like [you] should be in an asylum.'

The girl responds: 'I didn't say that, I just said if they want to identify as a cow or something, then they are genuinely unwell, and they're crazy.'

'You were questioning their identity,' the teacher replies. 'Where did you get this idea from that there are only two genders?'

'I just said my opinion,' the pupil replies. 'If I can respect their opinion, can't they respect mine?' The teacher goes on to assert there are 'lots of genders' including 'transgender' and 'agender'.

The teacher then links the girl's gender-critical attitude with 'homophobia', adding: 'It is not an opinion… if you don't like it, you need to go to a different school'.

Here is the article:
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12212063/Teacher-stays-silent-gender-row-scolding-pupil-questioning-childs-claim-shes-cat.html

So at the very least, there is an example that we can all listen to with our own ears of a teacher forcing their personal belief (that everyone has a gender identity and that species identities are part of this) on to children in their class as if a) it is factually true and b) rejecting this belief is tantamount to homophobia.

When the rejection of this enforced belief is labelled as "culture wars" or "right wing", this demonstrates how concerned parents are being silenced and vilified as bigots.

So, even if this was just clickbait with no proof that a child at the school had identified as a cat (devil's advocate/benefit of the doubt), it is absolute proof that on at least this one occasion, children are being told that species identity is a part of gender identity. It therefore stands to reason (as @WoodforTrees says) that vulnerable children may go on to ask for tail surgery or similar when they reach adulthood, given there are already many examples of 18 year olds in the UK having their penises, testicles or breasts removed so that their body "aligns with" their perceived identity.

The person who told me is a TA at the school, I’ve known her for years and she’s horrified by it.

My sisters next door neighbours 2nd cousins hairdressers nephews best friends mother agrees 🙄

What we do know is that organisations who do believe and promote this stuff have been allowed to go into schools and push their versions of reality via training and PSHE materials. While there's no doubt that most teachers roll their eyes at the nonsense, there are powerful groups who take this seriously and have been allowed to self identify as "experts" in sex ed etc and peddle their nonsense to schools. Added to the problem is that some respected safeguarding organisations fail to engage their critical thinking and also push things that shouldn't be encouraged for children:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-12026295/Safeguarding-organisation-blasted-giving-guidance-support-pupils-furries.html

When my son was 3 I asked him what he would like to be, his answer was a horse. He even had an idea of growing hooves and a tail. I had a giggle with him about humans not being able to turn into animals but it appears I've ruined his life and being a horse is an achievable ambition. He doesn't even remember it now!

Why have you conflated gender identity (where I agree there is a medical scandal) with species identity (where there doesn't appear to be)? Who do you believe is behind the "species identity" brewing scandal and why? Who are you thinking children need safeguarding from in this potential "species identity scandal" and how do you propose that happens?

@CassieMaddox it's a fetishistic trend online (and at pride now) that's now clearly part of children's day to day experiences- on TikTok it tends to be running around pretending to be an animal; deeper into the internet it's fetish.

We seem to have forgotten about David challenor very quickly, the Green Party member and father of a Green Party trans activist Aimee challenor, who's furry name was baloo and was convicted of raping a girl in his attic:

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/reddit-aimee-challenor-and-a-disturbing-insight-into-the-trans-debate/

So who is Challenor? In 2015, David Challenor, Aimee’s father was reported to the police for the rape and torture of a ten-year-old. In 2018, he was tried, convicted and jailed for 22 years for what the judge called his ‘depraved’ catalogue of crimes. Warwick crown court heard that David Challenor dressed as a little girl called Lucy while he strung the child from a beam, electrocuted and raped her in the small Coventry home in which Aimee also lived.

However, as reddit and eventually the Green Party, and also eventually also the Lib Dem's realised, Aimee's lifestyle isn't exactly the safest for someone who seeks positions of power:

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/aimee-challenor-and-nathaniel-knight

This article is riddled with the darker side of animal identities:

It’s a site based around Digimon Hentai. If you’ve seen Digimon on TV you'll know they’re stories based around children and creatures, and Hentai is a Japanese term for "manga or anime characterised by overtly sexualised characters and sexually explicit images and plots". So, as you’d expect, Digiartistsdomain is loosely a "smut" (porn) website focusing on paedophillia and bestiality around the Digimon characters. If you're on it, it's because you're interested in that.

It's about online harms, and the potential for online harms.

Quite fail, first paragraph is cassiemaddox

Spelling fail now

The mumsnet thread Glinner links to:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3639203-Nathaniel-Knight-partner-of-Aimee-Challenor-worrying-twitter-admissions

When we did the Uni drop off we saw one in the wild. He looked most incongruous in cat ears etc. His parents were seeming very conservative like the Tory family when Matf Lucas does the Tory skit.

it’s real & it’s happening. I have also seen a few adult furries at Heathrow.

Indeed.

This article offers an interesting angle on everything:

https://www.vice.com/en/article/how-the-furry-community-became-a-safe-space-for-youth/

Apparently it's reassuring that not every fursuit is a mursuit (costume designed for easy access sex) and that the LGBTQ community welcomes furries.

Some excerpts:

[to be in the community means] hanging out with a sizable group of other under 18 furries, many of whom, like my daughter, have a more open, flexible, and creative understanding of gender, sexuality, and identity.

I quickly learned that joining the furry community is not just about putting on a fursuit and “being an animal.” The fandom is a happy home for large numbers of non-heterosexual, transgender, genderqueer, and gender non-conforming people, welcoming many who feel stigmatized at home, school, and work. For many under 18 furries, the community provides a place where they “fit in” for the first time—one where they’re celebrated for their creative, invented fursonas.

Presumably it's all one big happy community where the fetish furries (including the ones who wear nappies and/or BDSM gear, as well as the suits with easy access for sex) get along well with all of those who just like to dress up. What's more, it's a great mix of all ages, with under 18s feeling welcome. How lovely 😍

Even better, there are resources available for parents to gaslight teach them about how fantastic furrydom is for "furries of all ages" and there is also "inclusive programming for all, including meetups for furry parents and furries with disabilities."

With all this blurring of boundaries, what could possibly go wrong for autistic or other vulnerable children when bringing it in to schools....? 🤦‍♀️

Edited to correct the context of the first excerpt from the article.

When I watch complications of therians, to me they're getting a lot of proprioceptive feedback from the jumping around.

This may also be a pull for Children and teens who are perhaps autistic, as well as the visual sensory feedback from making the TikToks.

Kids and teens do need "rough and tumble play;" it's why judo was invented.

From experience, the kids who dislike football and more mainstream sports tend to enjoy martial arts. It's a huge shame these are not on our curriculums.

This looks harmless but as i and others have previously said, it's where the internet can lead someone from this .

So if we all go along with the bollocks that you can identity as anything you like, I agree with PP that I identify as a 68 year old. I'll have my state pension now thanks.

Paedophiles will probably identify as children, so they will want school places. Someone else may identify as a corgi, so they'll need a place in Buckingham Palace.

The teacher said nothing about "species identity"