To think it's nonsense to believe that people chose homelessness?

[credflow012]

My friend is studying homelessness as part of a project in his sociology class. We were having a discussion last weekend and his belief was that anyone can become homeless but that he doesn't have much sympathy for the long-term homeless because most of them were addicts.

I found this ignorant and a bit offensive. Yes, people with substance-use disorder are overrepresented amongst the homeless but from volunterring with the homeless in college, I know that many started using after becoming homeless not the other way round. Mental illness, childhood trauma, and physical disabilites are very common in the chronic homeless and knowing how terrible healthcare is for the mentally ill and disabled even in many developed countries, I can't imagine how I'd personally be able to get out of that situation.

Do you mean the same traumatic experience? Everyone is affected differently by trauma. There's also inequality re support services. It's a lottery in the UK - acesss and quality of support. Likewise affordable housing. That needs addressing.

There's also people who do work but still end up homeless due to unaffordable housing.

Others are too unwell to work or can't work because they're caring for a disabled child or adult family member.

Ffs your friend sounds like an idiot and very privileged.

1 in 4 homeless people grew up in the care system. Trauma is massively connected to people developing addiction. Noone chooses the circumstances that lead to someone becoming homeless or misusing substances absolutely noone. When people talk about people who "choose" to be homeless it's never really a choice. It's a culmination of a lot of adverse life experiences and complex trauma that can make it incredibly difficult for someone to sustain stable accommodation. I've worked in the homeless sector for many years and I have yet to meet anyone who chooses to be homeless. Also just to say that someone living in a hostel or other emergency accommodation or sofa surfing is still homeless. Having a roof over your head does not mean you have a 'home' in the proper sense.

Dd you ever read The Glass CAstle, OP? The author, whose parents are homeless, it taken to task by her professor for saying the same thing as your friend.

I think the disagreement comes down, to a large extent, to the degree to which you think people who have problems like addiction actually have agency.

There's been a very strong push over the past two decades to basically say they don't have any agency, and that seems like a fairly common way of thinking among certain people who work in that field and also people who see themselves as allies.

It's a less common viewpoint, IME, among the wives, husbands, or kids of those people, or among the people directly affected by their behaviours in their neighbourhoods.

I don't think it's at all clear that the former perspective creates better outcomes for people than the latter.

I didn't think it was too passionate a post, @Windchimesandsong , it was good. I struggle with what I ideologically think, and what I have to live near. And I rent, so could be thrown out any time despite being here for nearly 10 years. But then I'd finally cave and tax the bank of mum and dad. Which many people don't have. So I have a complicated attitude towards the situation bar the fact it's shit all round. I can still have sympathy for those in a worse situation than I am though, while wishing some of them weren't arseholes. Ah well.

It's worth repeating that addiction issues are a separate issue from homelessness.

Yes sometimes linked, especially as being homeless is known to, understandably imo, cause substance issues.

However there's plenty of wealthy people who are very far from ever being homeless but have addiction issues. Lots of rich and famous examples, but there's also non famous and slightly less rich but still affluent people who have addiction issues.

A friend of my mum's was married to someone who had a very good and highly paid job (not a celebrity). They divorced because of it in the end but there was enough money for both him and her (and his DC) to own their homes outright. Still very sad though. He died young because of his addiction.

"You will always have a friend to help you in between rentals"

So you'll be HOMELESS while staying with a friend? Because that's what homelessness most often looks like - crashing at a friend's house.

"If you work and behave sensibly"
What about victims of domestic abuse. They often work and haven't done anything wrong. What about people who aren't able to earn a high enough wage to pay rent after a partner passes away?

"Homeless- homeless" is just playing into a stereotype. Many homeless people work and raise their family and behave very sensibly.

@Okbyethen why do you think this is???

I've never ever heard anyone who works in this sector say this before so I'm fascinated.

My guess is you haven't got to the root of the trauma that is causing them to feel the need to be transient in the first place.

Thanks @murasaki and I'm really sorry for what your situation. I understand. I wouldn't want to live near that either. It's a matter of safety. It's not people's fault if they're very unwell mentally or have substance issues - but although they need proper support and housing, it's also important that local residents aren't negatively impacted.

There needs to be proper supported housing (and not lumping in everyone with different needs together) with 24/7 resident expert staff - and also a need to ensure local communities and neighbours aren't put at risk or made to feel unsafe.

I'm less confident about these kinds of statements.

It's clear that at the moment there is a severe housing shortage that is creating whole new groups of people unable to find housing. Where I live it's much more acute than in the UK.

However - there have also where I live been quite a few attempts to create tiny housing villages. Some of these work well, one of my employees, who was in the shelter for quite a while, lives in one of these. This place takes people who are otherwise fairly stable. There are some social supports there for those who need them.

There have also been some attempts to house the more difficult addict population in some other villages. These include a lot of supports including 24 hour staffing, harm reduction measures, and so on. They are presented as a success but frankly they are not, the workers really struggle to keep a lid on violence, the residents spend a lot of time doing drugs and so can't work, there are a lot of ODs, trash is all over the place, and the police are there regularly.

I am really doubtful that society can afford that level of support for such a lot of people. And that people who are often struggling themselves to get by are likely to quickly become resentful of it. I don't think that makes them nasty people.

Yes, if we could have a resident staff member there it would be much better. We've been as a street whatsapp group in touch with our councillors, who've tried, the rep for the building, videos, cad numbers and on it goes. My friend had her house under offer, the buyers pulled it having come round last Saturday daytime for a look....

But people still need a roof over their heads. So. What do we do.

Your friend needs educating. Did they not teach him much in his sociology class?

I have worked with both homeless communities and individuals with addictions.

The vast majority of homeless people have some form of childhood trauma, often violent or sexual abuse.

Being homeless is a social injustice and not a choice. It is a consequence of multiple failings - from the way they were brought up ie. abuse while children, sexual trauma, social deprivation and marginalisation, poverty, and the failing of health care providers and the government.

Addiction can often be a cause of homelessness, or a symptom. However, individuals with addiction again have often been failed in some way (similar to that listed above) and can have mental health issues.

There is also a large number of people who are homeless that have some form of acquired brain injury. At no fault of their own.

People do over simplify a complicated issue. My great uncle was a rough sleeper, but he wasn’t homeless. He actually had a house, he just wouldn’t live in it. He had untreated schizophrenia (refused his medication most of the time) and lived on the common. He had a lot of siblings, my grandma used to try to see him weekly and would sometimes manage to get him to engage with services but he died sleeping rough in his 50’s.

Most homeless people are not on the street, they don’t have a fixed abode but move around sleeping with friends etc. People talk about homelessness and people on the street as if they are the same thing, but they aren’t and all the issues and reasons are so varied.

Anyone can become homeless- rough sleeping isn’t the default though.

Housing individuals who are homeless is not always as simple as it seems. Many choose to go back on the streets, which may appear as though they are choosing to be homeless. However, they often simply do not know how to function within 4 walls... or how to maintain a home. It is extremely difficult to adjust to being housed after years on the streets.

Many homeless people live with large amounts of shame, shame about the things they have done to survive on the streets. They often do not think they deserve to be housed.

I was working with a man who had been housed, and he would regularly go out and sleep on the streets, even though he had shelter. Because this is where he felt more comfortable.

Again, this isn't so much a choice as it is a consequence of a multitude of injustices.

Your friend is presumably doing research into this topic. You would do well
to listen to his findings rather than pre-empting his conclusions. Sometimes research findings surprise us.

I know a lovely homeless guy who lived beside the train station in a city I worked in. He had parkinson's and was very shakes, so he needed help to do a wee sign to beg with, so I helped. He couldn't access proper medical care or engage with homeless services, because he would not stay in a hostel overnight, and that is where they operated from. They would not accept his dog, his closest friend. So he stayed homeless to look after his dog.

The other question is 'so what?'

If some people choose it then what? We can ignore the issues, we can not deal with it, we can tra-la-tra off into the sunset?

Of course not, it affects everyone, even arseholes who don't care about the humans.

It's a project in a class. Not research.

@Chickadoo There's fairly regularly threads on MN from posters who are at risk of or are homeless. None chose it.

Many are working, many have children, others are ill or disabled or caring for a disabled child or elderly parent (but not unable to keep a home and the issue is simply the low income of benefits).

These posters have been asked to leave by their current landlord on a "no fault" eviction, or the rent has been increased to unaffordable level. Or they've fled DV.

You're right that they're struggling to keep a home. You're wrong that it's because of being mentally incapable of that. It's because they're on low wages or benefits - and housing has become unaffordable for many families and individuals.

Single women (both with and without children) are particularly affected, as per the link I posted upthread.

Yes, separately there are some people with mental health issues that mean they struggle to keep a home. As I've said, they need genuine supported housing - with 24/7 resident trained expert staff. As others have pointed out, these people have generally suffered immense trauma and/or are very unwell - and need appropriate help.

However it's a myth that the latter group make up the majority of homeless people. Perhaps in the past, I don't know, when there was more social housing available and full housing benefit, but things change.

No idea why some people cling to the myth. It's very obvious that if there's a shortage of social housing and private landlords wanting certain multiples of income from prospective tenants, loads of people on lower incomes risk being homeless.

It's really that simple. And even if there really are a small minority who really do choose to be homeless, we can still address the majority who don't - by providing more social housing (and where relevant, proper support).

Hope I'm replying to the right person but that isn't a freely made choice to live as a homeless person. That's led by a deep seated psychiatric issue that hasn't been resolved. If a patient is still hearing voices and experiencing delusions and paranoia then they're not treated, and any housing decisions made as a result aren't voluntary as they don't have insight into their condition. Fears about the accommodation offered resulting from that are not down to free choice but untreated illness

Buggeration, I can't find the post I was replying to! Never mind

I was working with a man who had been housed, and he would regularly go out and sleep on the streets, even though he had shelter. Because this is where he felt more comfortable.

When you say he'd been housed. Do you mean genuine housing, as in a safe independent home?

Or was it substandard unsafe homeless "housing" - that lumps all homeless people in together, complete with risk of violence, drugs, and lack of independence due to almost prison like rules and checks with no regard for personal space and dignity?

This is, shamefully for society, the reality of some homeless "housing". As noted in the article I linked upthread and another poster's personal experiences of living near one of these places).

Understandable some people feel less unsafe on the streets. Obviously there's an urgent need for

a) more social housing across the UK

b) safe emergency accomodation, that also isn't one size fits all mixing every homeless person together

c) genuine supported housing for people with substance issues, severe mental health issues unable to manage independent living. And separate complexes for these two groups unless the person has both substance and mental health issues.

All I know that if I was homeless I (who doesn’t drink and has never even tried drugs) would probably do both if I could get my hands on the stuff. I can’t imagine how vulnerable and scary it must be.

I feel the same @TripleCarber I also don't do drugs and don't drink much alcohol (can't cope with the hangovers especially after I turned 35). I imagine I'd want and probably need to be as out of it as possible to avoid the hellish reality.

Re the myths of "homeless by choice" and "most homeless people have addiction issues or mental health issues that make managing a home too hard".

I've had permission from the OP of a thread in AIBU to post here. Typical situation of how homelessness happens.

Working full-time with 2 DC. Needs to leave an abusive partner. No addiction issues. Struggling to find a private rental - despite having good rental references, a reasonable salary, and a guarantor. Private landlords are refusing her because of their high multiple of income demands (and one rejected her because they don't want children).

This is the awful situation too many people are in today. It's a shame on society.

There's an urgent need for more social housing across the UK. And safe decent temporary accomodation (that isn't one size fits all).