To think it's nonsense to believe that people chose homelessness?

[credflow012]

My friend is studying homelessness as part of a project in his sociology class. We were having a discussion last weekend and his belief was that anyone can become homeless but that he doesn't have much sympathy for the long-term homeless because most of them were addicts.

I found this ignorant and a bit offensive. Yes, people with substance-use disorder are overrepresented amongst the homeless but from volunterring with the homeless in college, I know that many started using after becoming homeless not the other way round. Mental illness, childhood trauma, and physical disabilites are very common in the chronic homeless and knowing how terrible healthcare is for the mentally ill and disabled even in many developed countries, I can't imagine how I'd personally be able to get out of that situation.

A very few people may choose to live a nomadic lifestyle or off grid in a tent. I don't think anyone chooses to sleep on the street, though, do they? Describing homelessness as a choice reduces a set of very complex problems into something we can blame and therefore fail to try and remedy.
People run away from home, become addicts, lose their job/family/home for a range of reasons. None of which are conscious choices.
OP's friend could do with a reality check.

Some people may choose to be homeless, but it’s maybe worth considering what their other options/circumstances were that being homeless was a better choice for them.

Is that really true though, that they've abandoned genuinely safe housing?

Or is it the "housing" they've been offered is unsafe. There's a reason why some people "choose" the streets over that. It's one size fits all - addicts (and ex prisoners) with low waged families and DV victims.

For those without substance issues, that can be terrifying. And for those with substance issues who've trying to get clean, it's incredibly difficult if housed around drugs.

Re mental health. For many it's traumatic experiences that cause mental health issues. They're very capable of maintaining their own home. The only relevance the mental health issues have is lack of funds to afford safe housing (due to landlords refusing benefits and shortage of social housing).

The minority with mental health issues that mean living independently is too difficult, they need genuine supported housing. Not unsafe substandard homeless housing, but something similar to retirement blocks that have resident wardens. Supported housing with independent units but live-in well-trained support staff.

Here's an example of the "perfectly safe" housing people "choose" the streets over

Residents are so scared that many are too afraid to be pictured. They say they have told police about attempted murders, sex assaults, violence, prostitution, drug dealing and taking, thefts and robberies, which they claim are a weekly occurrence, with pimps working round the clock.
https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/uks-worst-place-live-cesspit-31773314

Not a choice from the start but can be sadly , once the addiction is really entrenched.

Sorry for taking over the thread.

I'll let other people get a word in now!

I'll leave these relevant links here for your friend @credflow012 (and his classmates). The first issue is something Keir Starmer spoke about, I believe yesterday. He's planning to address this, which if he does is to be applauded

Domestic abuse and other forms of gender-based violence are near universal experiences for women who experience homelessness.
https://www.shp.org.uk/hidden-homelessness-research

Exclusive data shared with i by the Women’s Budget Group (WBG), an independent think tank which campaigns for a more equal economy, has found there is now not one area in England which could be considered affordable for a single woman to rent or buy a home.
https://inews.co.uk/opinion/mortgage-scandal-no-one-wants-to-talk-about-3147143

In many instances, substance abuse is the result of the stress of homelessness, rather than the other way around. Many people begin using drugs or alcohol as a way of coping with the pressures of homelessness.
https://americanaddictioncenters.org/rehab-guide/homeless

Wouldn’t have thought sociology the ideal subject for someone who has already made up his mind (and is a bigot).

I am actually quite heartened to see the replies from the vast majority of posters here. You get it.
And to see these replies genuinely gives me hope.
That the U.K. has a housing AFFORDABILITY crisis. Just look at sodding Homes under the Hammer, and those bores Kirsty and Phil….stupid sums of money, making profits, yet causing untold misery to many others. I’m also glad to see of an understanding of the situations that lead to homelessness. It is a very basic need, which we really need to tackle now. It has gone on long enough.
There are a lot of people suffering with the effects of trauma. Poor MH and health provision. I am certainly of the belief that substance abuse has a correlation to the stresses of above. OP….i think your friend has some serious work to do.
On a personal level, I could very well have been homeless, on a few occasions. Even though I was working full time.

It's the Lady Windermere's fan quotation, isn't it, 'a cynic is one who knows the cost of everything but the value of nothing. '

We cannot claim anyone chooses to be homeless until there is affordable housing for EVERYONE who needs it, along with all the attendant services required for everyone to be able to maintain their tenancy, mental health support, drink and alcohol services, allowance for pets that many have as their only family, supported housing, single independant flats, accessible properties for those that need them and so on and so on.

Only once that is all provided, well funded and available to all that need it, only then can we even think about saying someone is choosing to be homeless; but even then I very much doubt more than a handful or people would honestly be choosing to be homeless, and it’s likely that almost everyone of those is only choosing the lesser of 2 poor options as the housing / support being offered isn’t appropriate / doesn’t meet their needs.

in 15 years of working with hundreds of people who are homeless, I can honestly say I’ve yet to meet anyone who is choosing to be there.

Yeah exactly.

I chose homelessness for 3 months. It can be a choice.

We cannot claim anyone chooses to be homeless until there is affordable housing for EVERYONE who needs it, along with all the attendant services required for everyone to be able to maintain their tenancy, mental health support, drink and alcohol services, allowance for pets that many have as their only family, supported housing, single independant flats, accessible properties for those that need them and so on and so on

Again, that’s not quite right. Sometimes people can have all of that and it still doesn’t work. Some mental illnesses cannot be controlled by medication (some people are treatment resistant or cannot take last line therapy for a number of reasons). You can give them safe housing, put in all the supports you want and it still won’t work and they will choose homelessness. The only other option is locking them up forever in a psych unit and you can’t do that if they are not a direct and imminent danger to themselves or others and they rarely are. Choosing homelessness is not classed as a danger to self per se.

Edited to add:
in 15 years of working with hundreds of people who are homeless, I can honestly say I’ve yet to meet anyone who is choosing to be there

I’ve met quite a few over the years, all in the above situation. Most of them are really nice people, and some were really intelligent and articulate but it was what it was. Not everyone in life can be helped in every way, sometimes the help they need just doesn’t actually exist (as opposed to not funded etc).

Some people do choose to be homeless. Not the majority I guess but some certain do choose that way of life for a myriad of reasons.

@Captnip500 This happened in our neighborhood, a man started sleeping in a bus shelter and neighbours talked about his situation online, discussing how to get him housed, etc.

It turned out that he did have a flat, but he kept starting fires inside and then abandoned it. He was taken into hospital and he hasn’t been back so I hope he was able to get the help he needed.

A homeless person near me went viral after someone posted a bit about him. Within a few hours he’s been put up in a hotel with people calling the hotel directly to pay for his room, he had several job offers made to him, the local mp got involved and got loads of services to fast track him. He refused to engage with any services and went back to his usual spot as apparently that made him more money than working.

How do you know? As @Adarajames says in their excellent post, the country doesn't have all that.

There isn't, except in very limited supply and only in a few parts of the UK, genuine supported housing. Independent units with properly trained 24/7 resident staff.

There's isn't anywhere near enough social housing.

There isn't anywhere near enough accessible housing.

Public services - health and social care including mental health support and help for substance issues, are underfunded and/or badly run, and a postcode lottery. There often isn't timely and/or effective help.

So people don't have what's needed - so you can't say people choose to be homeless.

There are a tiny minority of people who choose to be nomads and/or live off-grid, but they're a small minority and also that isn't genuine homelessness.

(Apologies, I really do mean to stop taking over this thread now!).

You are incorrect OP from what I've seen.

Pretty sure I've seen this on the Crisis website too but this is from the Single Homeless Project:

Two thirds of homeless people cite drug or alcohol use as a reason for first becoming homeless, while those who use drugs are seven times more likely to be homeless than the general population.

Absolutely. But by no means a hefty proportion. Examples;

Some people can’t live in dwellings, believe it or not. I don’t know why, they just loathe it. Voluntary homeless is their official description.

Some people get booted out because they won’t tackle their own violent behaviour, also voluntary.

Some people get the boot because they won’t tackle their drink problem, arguably voluntary.

Some people have homes abroad but go homeless in this country, partic in London. That starts off voluntary.

Also: don’t get begging confused with homelessness.

Only read the first post so far but some people do choose homelessness . I know a young man who chooses to live in a tent rather than shared housing.

@Beth216

From the single homeless project

Substance misuse is both a cause and a symptom of homelessness. The stress of living on the streets - or the threat of becoming homeless – can reinforce the use of drugs or alcohol as a coping mechanism, trapping people in a vicious cycle.

I also linked information in a previous post, re the fact that often it's the homelessness that causes substance issues. Unsurprisingly.

I also quoted from the SHP btw - with a link noting that DV is the main cause of women's homelessness. This isn't only true for single women. It's the case for women with children too. That's actually something Keir Starmer spoke about yesterday - with plans to address.

Returning to substance issues. Many people with substance issues aren't homeless. Everybody knows that because there's some very rich and famous examples, but it's not only something that affects well-known people. Others who have money but aren't famous also struggle with substance issues - but aren't homeless.

There's two separate issues discussed in this thread.

Homelessness is because of lack of affordable housing. Affordable, and appropriate, eg. some, but not all people with mental health issues might need supported housing with 24/7 resident staff (many don't need this and just need affordable housing). Likewise people with substance issues might need supported housing, or if independent housing they need access to good and effective help.

He sounds like a black & white thinker.

So you have run yourself around in a circle while unable to define the thing I am apparently missing, and also unable to explain why I would want it or what value it has or could add to my life. Pathetic.

You have literally made something up because you don't like that the world isn't fair and it helps you get through the day. I hope that your imaginary nonsense brings you great comfort, you obviously so desperately need it.

Plenty of people dont try and lead a conventional life, they are chaotic and their main priority is their addiction.
I dont think its choosing it in the usual sense, but they are their own worst enemies and beyond help

Some people "choosing" the lesser of two evils has been discussed.

Sometimes shared housing especially what's available for homeless people isn't safe. Violence, drugs, etc, and without proper 24/7 resident support staff.

Other times it's simply not something some vulnerable people can cope with - due to mental health issues or trauma. They need independent housing as they're unable to cope with sharing with strangers, especially because there's no guarantee those strangers will be safe.

The UK needs more social housing, including genuine supported housing.

@Windchimesandsong How do you know? As says in their excellent post, the country doesn't have all that

Because I treated quite a few over several decades. Everything you say is missing, won’t help some people. Won’t change a thing. I’ve treated people who have been given social housing. Offered support after support. None of that will ever work if the voices in their heads are telling them that the government are using spyware inside their houses, or that aliens are sending signals and have tracked them to a house and are going to abduct them or a million and one other scenario’s. They honestly believe it’s safer not to be in a house, any house, (giving them different ones doesn’t work either), as they can’t be ‘tracked’ otherwise. I have come across a few who also believed they were being tracked by using the water supply, so refused to have any or go near any water including when homeless but that’s tangental. Unfortunately, there is NO service for many of these people that will fix this. Not all medicines work. Some people are treatment resistant or have other conditions where they can’t take last line therapy. They choose homelessness because they genuinely believe it’s the better option for themselves.