To think that the ADHD label is masking other things in society?

[comoatoupeira]

Disclaimer this is NOT about being skeptical ADHD is a thing, my brother is diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor as well as a close friend of mine.

Through my job I have been doing a lot of research about the impacts of tech and social media and so on on young people, and also on the elderly who are becoming the first generation of elderly people who are high technology users.

It has all been making me see so many parallels between behaviors associated with ADHD and behaviors that are becoming more and more difficult to control because of the attention-stealing environment we are in, and other aspects of society today like consumerism always available in your pocket, long working hours and both parents working, the difficulty of taking those restorative breaks that are what helps us focus and take a step back.

I'm just feeling like we are looking at some milder cases of ADHD too much as an isolated medical thing rather than a wider societal ill.

I feel like the same thing has happened with depression, framing it as some sort of imbalance that can be fixed by drugs, when it's so much about the societies we live in.

I feel uncomfortable about all of these labels being used especially by young people with mild cases of things, it seems to imprison them in a fixed identity or frame them as having something wrong with them, when none of us a perfect and we all have strengths and weaknesses, and life is about living with them and being open to change.

What do you think?

I know. But a formulation is an alternative to diagnosis. If you are doing a proper formulation you don’t need the label. I’m talking about a psychological formulation. Not just an assessment that takes into account those three areas.

Yes, and my children didn’t have access to screens until secondary school, but their ASD/ADHD was very clear (now I have their diagnoses) from as young as 2… eg. the lack of interest in role play with others, but obsessive love of particular characters/dressing up as them; the encyclopaedic knowledge of Thomas the Tank Engine (both) and the multi-room tracks they built, my DD’s obsession with dinosaurs that let a palaeontologist at the natural history museum’s jaw drop when she walked in aged 7 and corrected a parent as to the name and genus of a display skeleton without even reading the info board.

Personally my AuDHD was blatantly evident in my bookishness and early reading (I read Austen/the Brontës before I was ten; was grade 8 level on the recorder by that time, too, and self taught on multiple instruments because locking myself away in a music-bubble was the way I ‘did’ my autism). No screens.

Screens DO facilitate obsessions and hyper-focus on special interests, so I think people misattribute the AuDHD behaviours to the presence of them… when the obsessive interests and hyper-focus were always there, just gratified by different means.

But your diagnosis means you are aware of the effect modern tech exacerbates your ADHD. Not just that, you know it's the dopamine hits your addicted to not the screens. It also means you can treat it.

Said the pot to the kettle

Only to the sense that if screens are deemed an issue that should be rationed accordingly, then so should books, lego, access to musical instruments, or stamp collections (still have those hanging around in the loft)?

It's pretty widely recognized that COVID restrictions have had a significant effect in the development of some children. I think you just made the "probably" bit up. The characteristics are very different.

Apologies @CautiousLurker that post was aimed at @Asherrain. The quote disappeared somewhere.

Yes, that's what I see! The medication does help many, which confuses this theory. Do you find that?

@CautiousLurker Thomas the Tank!!! Tons of the stuff. 😁

ASD DS actually gave his Xbox to his NT brother he was so disinterested in it.

Sorry - no worries!

I think my point was more general too - they used to say that ladies should not be allowed to read books due to the corruptive nature of them (1820s), and that TV would rot our brains. I do feel that as a society there is over reliance/ dependence on screens, but this applies to NT people as well as ND ones.

:)

It’s the only stuff I cannot part with now they are YP/teens. As a family we spent hours building ramps with books to run the wooden track on and connect rooms with steps. We’d then leave it up for days. The stations, the bridges, the turntables… I don’t think I’ll ever part with it!

But my kids did graduate onto the Xbox and now souped-up gaming PCs. They can keep those!

@CautiousLurker if I described the interests of NT DS2 half the people posting here would think they're stereotypical AuDHD behaviors.

We also have my Dad's RAF national service kit bag full of little wooden offcuts we could make bridge supports our of.

The aim of course being to use every last piece.

@Eightypercent

The aim of course being to use every last piece.

But of course!!

I think your comment was aimed at me.
I have no idea what you are getting at though.

That’s not what I meant.

What I mean is that comparing my presentation, or my children’s, whilst things have been monumentally difficult, we are able to go on to live independently and not need life long support.

In real life this is what people see when they say someone has mild autism. Not everyone has correct terminology at hand and shouldn’t be berated for wording things clumsily, when it’s very clear that some are affected by their autism/ADHD more than others.

Mine needed and still do need MH support, but on the whole they can now manage this themselves with reminders and occasional help. It is still difficult, but it is worlds away from, say, their autistic cousin who needs constant supervision and support and will never live independently. Whether verbal or not, that’s what I meant.

I think so, apologies if I got it wrong again. It's late.

I think that people making this argument (´but I was addicted to my stamp collection as a child, you couldn’t get me down for tea!’) are being naive as to the power of digital technologies to wear down our self governance about how we spend our time. I also think we are naive about the capacities of AI to pinpoint exactly what makes us spend more time on these things and make it harder and harder to quit.
A paperback and a Lego set don’t stand a chance compared to social media and gaming.

The leap in SN may not be autism though, that’s never been made clear.

The difficulties that teachers are having is children not being as developmentally ready for school in larger numbers than a few years ago.
Some of those developmental differences at a young age may look like autism (as has been suggested by many experienced teachers) but until there’s research into the effects of allowing babies, toddlers and children hours of screen time a day it’s going to be difficult to say for sure what’s going on.
Someone upthread suggested that one day there may be a different diagnosis of “been in front of a screen too long”, but until more is known we rely on feedback from childcare providers and teachers, and if they’re to be believed things are looking a little bleak right now.

In the meantime the numbers of children needing significant support in schools continues to rise.

Perhaps… but I have a book collection in the several thousands, and my kindle library is twice as large and even at 50+ will/have read a book through the night and just pulled myself together to drive my kids to school in the morning on a couple of hours sleep. I can read a book a day quite easily. My dopamine levels are highly stimulated by books. I’d also lose awareness of time when playing music (instruments) as a teen and genuinely think I’d spent 45mins playing to discover when my mum yelled at me to STFU that is was dark outside and I’d been playing for 4-6hours. I think people are naive to think the addiction/dopamine effect is new and entirely tech-based. My older teen, who is an avid gamer, can lose hours reading or drawing just as easily as playing Apex legends, my younger one the same when sorting his pokemon cards.

@twart I think we're agreeing with each other.

I totally agree with this. The algorithms are so clever and powerful. I have a tendency to read sad stories, I can't quite help myself if I see a sad title, even though I know I shouldn't read it. So I often get served sad stories on FB. But
I then realised that Facebook was serving me sad stories that were like 3 years old!!
So not only was it deliberately sending me sad stories, it was digging some out of the archives. I mean FFS! As if I need someone to make me even more sad.

But that's just a small example of what it's capable of and the influence it can have on someone's mental state, their views and opinions. Imagine what it can do to a child!
And that's just FB, I've deliberately gone nowhere near tiktok.

The continuous scrolling is also highly addictive for the brain, that element of continuous reward. The overstimlation makes the rest of the world feel boring to the brain. It's harder to then read, to study, to watch interesting documentaries, to concentrate in lectures etc.
TV has a similar effect on small children. Programmes where the screen continually changes every second (which is a surprising amount of them) are designed with the exact same purpose.

@comoatoupeira you need to check out brick link, studio and brick maker etc.

Neither of my kids do SM except for private messaging. What decade are you living in?

I have been wondering for a while if the internet/screens are particularly damaging for autistic children. They are particularly drawn to it because it is safe and predictable, but it means they have no reason at all to interact with the real world.

If you loved stamps on the 1980s you’d probably want to go to a shop and have a look at them. Or if you loved trains you’d go to the station or for a train ride. The online world is a complete world that you never need to step outside of.

Yes I agree. And when you stop interacting as much you lose the skills you need to do it, it’s a vicious circle.

@Babush are ND kids particularly drawn to it more than NT kids? That is not my experience at all.