To think that the ADHD label is masking other things in society?

[comoatoupeira]

Disclaimer this is NOT about being skeptical ADHD is a thing, my brother is diagnosed with ADHD by a doctor as well as a close friend of mine.

Through my job I have been doing a lot of research about the impacts of tech and social media and so on on young people, and also on the elderly who are becoming the first generation of elderly people who are high technology users.

It has all been making me see so many parallels between behaviors associated with ADHD and behaviors that are becoming more and more difficult to control because of the attention-stealing environment we are in, and other aspects of society today like consumerism always available in your pocket, long working hours and both parents working, the difficulty of taking those restorative breaks that are what helps us focus and take a step back.

I'm just feeling like we are looking at some milder cases of ADHD too much as an isolated medical thing rather than a wider societal ill.

I feel like the same thing has happened with depression, framing it as some sort of imbalance that can be fixed by drugs, when it's so much about the societies we live in.

I feel uncomfortable about all of these labels being used especially by young people with mild cases of things, it seems to imprison them in a fixed identity or frame them as having something wrong with them, when none of us a perfect and we all have strengths and weaknesses, and life is about living with them and being open to change.

What do you think?

I think it's like many things nowadays, some people genuinely have ADHD which affects their day to day lives beyond the realm of what's 'normal', and others interpret what are regular human traits and/or the affects of environment and self diagnose themselves as having it. Same goes for anxiety, OCD etc- there are people who genuinely suffer with it and others who feel anxious about stuff that is expected to cause this and label themselves as having anxiety. I would say it doesn't matter but I think it does, it downplays the immense struggles some have and people think differently towards them ie it can't be that bad I have it too and am fine. As you say, it also stops people addressing underlying causes. There are people who genuinely have it though and no amount of stopping or switching behaviours and lifestyle helps!

@onthecoastalpath

How do you get adhd children to sleep!

Any ideas gratefully received

Tbh I think the issue is not ASD or ADHD as such - I’ve recently been diagnosed in my fifties after my children (both teens diagnosed). I’ve obviously had this all my life and it’s contributed to bits of my life being difficult to managed BUT I actually have been successful overall - balls-ed up GCSEs a bit, but loved school, did better in A Levels and acquired lots of degrees (uni/study is my safe space), worked in various roles in the city from admin through to being an analyst. Work was largely fine even if I got bored of jobs quickly and found it difficult to navigate the groups of women in a lot of places.

I think the issue is that education and the employment world has changed - constant tests/reviews/360 appraisals, rigid protocols, no flexibility etc. Social media/technology and the expectation of immediacy and 24/7 service that doesn’t allow you to have a slow/decompression day after a project deadline or exams etc. 20 years ago, we’d have a long team lunch after a big deal went through in recognition of long hours and high stress, and were allowed to knock off early to have some recovery time… and that was in banking, a supposedly cut-throat industry.

So yes, I think the focus on the individual being the issue (with their ADHD etc) is misdirected and we need to look at whether social and technical changes of the last 20 years are really serving the diverse needs of our children and employees.

Wow, thank you so much. Saving this post for my work project. I'll look up the book.

I agree, but I think the use of label belittles how much some people are going through, and how society has become more difficult for people with neurodivergent disorders.

I think far more children are having to be diagnosed due to failings in education, which isn’t being addressed. 20+ years ago there wasn’t a mental health crisis amongst children (including very young children), there wasn’t the pressure on children that there is now, and there wasn’t the lack of support that there is now.

The next few years are going to be very interesting.

I think we could all do with turning the screens (both TV and phone/PC/tablet) off most evenings. There's only rubbish on there that we don't need to know.
When did we last read a book, do some sewing, play a board game, have an early night, or actually talk to each other?

Bi polar you are born with same as some other mental illnesses.

@PutOnYourRedShoesAndLetsDance No, you’re not. You may be born with a genetic predisposition but you’re not born with the disease. Whether it manifests or not is based on numerous factors and complex interplay between them.

20+ years ago there wasn’t a mental health crisis amongst children

I assure you there was. You just didn’t see those children because they were hidden away.

Not on the scale there is now, nowehere close.

The idea that children 20+ years ago didn't have pressure upon them is nonsense.

In the 70's and 80's all you heard from anyone, parents, relatives, teachers etc was "stick in at school and pass your exams, otherwise your entire life is screwed", then you were pretty much left to get on with it and it was entirely your fault if you failed.

After being barbecued on another thread because of my ignorance, I hesitate to say much! 😮

But...I'm not qualified to comment on ADHD, but that apart, it's long been suspected that screens in general and computer games in particular create an expectation of very rapid gratification and lessen concentration span.

From my own experience, I'm aware that many people now (adults as well as children) seem incapable of sitting quietly through a film or play as was once expected. And they don't take kindly to being asked to shut up, either!

And, having worked in museums and exhibitions, I know that the pressure has been constant to shorten and simplify captions and information about exhibits.

Because no one talked about it.

I work with a lot of YP diagnosed with ADHD. One thing they all have in common is a background of trauma. The trauma has led to the symptoms which have been labelled as ADHD. They all need therapeutic support for trauma, but what they get is ADHD medication, it’s very sad.

Saving this post for my work project

is this thread research then?

I don't know anything about how adhd diagnosis work but I know with depression it's definitely overdiagnosed due to gp time restraints and the waiting lists for talking therapies. If you go along to your 7 minute gp appointment and say your feeling tired, unhappy, down etc the waiting list for talking therapies is 2 years the only thing a gp can do is throw antidepressants at you and hope for the best. There is very little time to discuss what the actual route cause is and whether it's genetic, environmental or a chemical imbalance. I was diagnosed with depression and anxiety as a teen from my gp probably in under 5 minutes the only diagnosis that had any time and thought put into it was when I was diagnosed with bpd/eupd by an actual psychiatrist and even that wasn't this indepth process it was a phone call and I believe she had already made her decision before I opened my mouth as I was a young female with a history of trauma. I have struggled with my mh for most of my life severely at times and been sectioned a few times and mainly been under secondary care for it, its had a huge impact on my life. However I do raise an eyebrow at people who apparently have been cured from these things with time or a couple of cbt appointments or a website. As that's not really how these thing work when you genuinely have the conditions and your not just a bit sad, nervous or stressed because of circumstances. To me if someone is cured when there removed from an environment whether that is a workplace or relationship then that's not mental illness

I am well aware that there were teens with mental problems, I was one of them (undiagnosed autistic at the time).

What there wasn’t was the whole competitive mess of current mental issues within schools, where it’s worn as a badge of honour with a large percentage of children outdoing each other in terms of how much they are suffering. This is not to say they’re not suffering, but my own take on it is that this has been created by being in a poor environment, coupled with an increase of “mental health awareness” which has triggered a huge contagion effect amongst children.

Please don’t assume that I’m saying no teens have mental illnesses, but the current situation means that those with contagious mental illness are overtaking resources that are now scarce for those in dire need.

In DD’s last school year over 80% of the girls had mental health issues and were either being seen by CAMHS or were on the waiting list. Those who had desperate situations and a definite need for help were often overlooked.

Abigail Shrier has a book about this - Bad Therapy.

ADHD is NOT a type of autism.
You are NOT born with Bi polar disorder but may be genetically predisposed to it.

Honestly I do worry about people putting all this misinformation out on line.

What constitutes 'mild' ADHD OP and what differentiates it from not mild?

@onthecoastalpath - don’t suppose you’d consider doing an AMA?

Nope. It's a tangential thought that came out of stuff I was reading for work. But I might want to develop this in the future seeing as it seems to be a relevant topic that people are keen to discuss.

What I mean by 'mild' is people who are still able to get degrees, have successful jobs, etc., but talk a lot about their ADHD online (people I know), as opposed to people who need continual support to make a living, get qualifications, etc.
Does that make sense? Would be interested in a professional view here.

I think modern western living expectations exacerbate MH and ND conditions.

In Finland and countries with different communication norms where small talk is less of a thing, where the pace of life is slower, where there is less technology due to rural living and generally people are living a calmer, more physical lifestyle those with ND will be able to cope better, perhaps not requiring a diagnosis as the way they live is an adjustment enough.

I think there is so much demand on our nervous system in the western world, so much more sensory stimuli etc even in everyday experiences like going to the supermarket that it is just too overwhelming on people who would have been able to cope during other points in history.

They probably need both. I had a traumatic childhood, I also was aware I had adhd traits by the time I was a teen. I told adults and even a counsellor but no one took it seriously. In the mean time I had a lifetime of being constantly told off by teachers, adults showing open irritation and anger for things I couldn’t help. And the more I tried the more I failed, pissing said adults off further. My mother evidently had undiagnosed ADHD as well, and was explosive in her anger, whilst I couldn’t understand her hypocrisy as many ways she behaved mirrored my own self.

My children have not been traumatised, they have two parents who love the bones of them and never hear daily fighting or frustration (though there are times like any families). As soon as I recognised their ND traits, I have fought for support and understanding so they never went through what I did. They’re still medicated for ADHD, not because it’s a simple solution but it works alongside them to get them through the day and manage to be better classmates to other children. This is on top of daily support.

YANBU - have you heard of the rat park science experiment in the 70s?

Summary: an isolated rat, with no friends, purpose or stimulus, when offered drugs, will take those drugs, and become addicted, taking them until they overdose.

By contrast, a rat in a lovely rat-utopia with lots of friends will completely ignore those same available drugs, try them once and never return.

i.e. things like addiction and depression, yes they sometimes to relate to physical chemical things that need to be helped, but they often also have confounding factors to do with wider society.

I am diagnosed with adhd and I think yanbu. I think that the modern environment especially since the internet, has really highlighted it, and people with adhd are less able to manage it than a few decades ago.
I had many symptoms of adhd as a child, and this is something they make sure of during the diagnosis process, that its been present during childhood and not a response to other things.

Totally agree.