To think that non-binary candidates are more unlikely to be offered a job?

[GinnyPiggie]

I have a non-binary child in their twenties and they are really struggling to secure work.

It might be unfair of me, but I really think that in presenting themselves as non-binary, they are going to struggle to be offered a job with the vast majority of employers. Yes this might be pure discrimination but personally I'd be worried about HR issues and getting sued for saying the wrong thing.

AIBU to think that if you have a range of good candidates, you are going to be reluctant to hire a non-binary candidate because of the potential for issues in the office?

😬🫨 Nuff said. No thank you. Next.

My experience with some people who refer to themselves as non- binary is that they often (not always) seem preoccupied more with themselves and their pronouns than the job. I work with a range of vulnerable patients - I couldn't have an employee of mine being uptight if one of their patients didn't refer to them with the correct pronouns, prehaps causing tension and awkwardness... we need to build trust and rapport with our patients - so no, I would not hire someone who was going to be potentially problematic. Although I'm sure this wouldn't always be the case, I have seen it happen.

Older adults especially are not always on board with these new terms, and it's hard for them to keep up - the last thing on their mind as a service user - should not be trying to not offend their caregiver over something as trivial as a pronoun.

How would I know at interview what the candidates identify as? If this is something your DC is very keen to make known and prioritise then yes it could impact the selection process. I want a candidate to focus on the requirements of the role and to work as part of a team. Pushing a personal goal at application is going to make me wonder about your DCs priorities at work and how appropriate their behaviour is.

I also wouldn't hire anyone who has their pronouns in their CV.

Agreed, it's the self obsession that is off putting.

An XY infiltrated an XX group and monopolised it completely.
Not a hiring situation, but the XY's presence was very off-putting and made the meetings awkward. {The XY identified as XX}

People do not choose to be trans. With the hate trans people get, nobody would choose to be. It is not a choice.

Hmm. I know someone who has spent years of their life working with this once small group of people. These days there very much ARE people who choose. There are multiple reasons, but for some people being trans can be socially, massively advantageous. It wasn't like that 20 years ago. Those people REALLY experienced hate. Horrific lives for many of them. They're called horrible things still today too, also by younger activists, who want them to shut up.

But the idea that there are no advantages to making people walk around you on eggshells, for fear of making a linguistic error, fear upsetting you or disagreeing with you about anything, because that will be seen as transphobic, which is on a par with racist, is nonsense. You get a special status and some people want that. However, it has a flip side, when, like OP's child has experienced, rather than play the game of telling you you're so brave, some people opt out of the game entirely and don't want to hire you.

It is mental illness is what it is. I can’t believe we are still beating around the bush on the matter.

It isn't that they are openly non-binary. It is because they have started the interview by instructing their interviewer about their personal pronoun preferences.

They present as non-binary by saying "Hello my name is <male name> and my pronouns are 'they/them'"

Unless they are applying as a lecturer in gender identity, then this is a red flag, just the same as saying "My name is Fred and I do not believe in God."

I do not give a shiny shit about someone's belief system nor do I want to hear about it when I am interviewing them for their suitability to work in the accounts department.

I’ve met several NB people ranging from teenage to mid thirties. I would honestly never hire any of them.

Someone asked early on how you’d know - IME that’s the main topic of conversation so you’d know.

All that I know are obviously mentally unwell and are solely focused on themselves and are on high alert for any possible perceived offence. This would not be conducive to any sort of friendly working atmosphere.

Decent employees are hard to come by, anyone being open about any gender status would be quickly filtered out.

Going along with gender nonsense is not doing anyone any favours.

I’m actually quite surprised how many people have said this, as it’s pretty standard for young adults (whether non, or not-non) to do this, as far as I can tell.

In order to identify as non-binary, you need to believe everyone else fits a gender (not sex) binary. This is just gender stereotypes.
We have a lot of women and gay employees. I'd be cautious about hiring someone who made it clear from the start that a big part of their identity revolves around beliefs in sexist and homophobic stereotyping.
It wouldn't stop me hiring them if they demonstrated they could do the job and would be respectful of other employees, but the question of cultural fit would come up.

An important point. It's not the actual fact, no one really cares about that, it's the surrounding factors which wave the big red flags which seem to regularly fly over the head of gender ideologist pushers and their supporters.

Should have said that all I’ve met are female.
I’ve met several TW but so far no NB men.

After about 5 years of working with someone, we were planning a meal out and I said that I am vegetarian, when asked about dietary needs. She replied "How did I not know that about you?" I responded, "Em, because it hasn't been relevant until right now?" I was relieved not to be the stereotypical "hi, I'm duckydoo234 and I'm a vegetarian".

And if they announce it at the start of the interview and completely unnecessarily, they’re far more likely to be the militant, self-absorbed troublemaker kind.

Two NB females go for interviews. Let’s call them Tom and George. Tom sits down, talks about how he can help the company, shows knowledge of the company, etc etc. In contrast, George opens with an intro like the OP’s child.

Tom is seen as a good candidate for the job, George isn’t. They are both NB females. The difference is that that’s just part of Tom and Tom has shown their skills and enthusiasm in the company, whereas George oozes ostentatious, egotistic self-importance.

Rejecting George isn’t ‘transphobic’. They’re being rejected for being a self-important, immature twit.

Looking at my industry there's been a change compared to 2-3 years ago for graduate and junior positions. It's certainly more challenging for candidates with fewer roles advertised and slightly higher number of candidates than before due to covid caused graduation delays. We recently had an opening on graduate level for which we received ~600 applications, ~120 I'd say were relevant.

Unfortunately if you introduce your pronouns as 'they and them' in a job interview, the only time the interviewer is likely to use them is by saying 'They didn't get the job'.

They will have to narrow their search to companies who ascribe to the ideology. I would also consider asking your daughter if it should matter what sex (or gender) a person is in a job scenario. If she says it shouldn't matter, then why say anything at all? It's irrelevant. And that's without any consideration of the debate about if it makes any sense at all.

I encourage applications from minorities, first for ethical reasons, but second, because they tend to be hard working and loyal employees,

Fine, but "non-binary" applicants are only "minorities" in the same way that goths and other teenagers are technically "a minority". They aren't people who have legal protection.

"...Undergoing or planning to undergo gender reassignment" in the EA was written for sex change operation individuals, not people who want another nose piercing.

I really wouldn't presume a goth teenager was any more or less hard working or loyal than any other applicant. You need more information. And tbh pronouns on your CV are a red flag for twattery.

Having read the updates then, yes, it would put me off as an interviewer if someone started an interview in this way, about any aspect of their identity or beliefs.

its like walking into an interview and announcing that cats are better than dogs.

i might think that person is a bit immature, has some processing to do, or is an activist- whichever, they’re clearly not prioritising their career or this interview!

As previously said, they tend to be quite up front about it. Partly because they use a very traditional male name, but appear to be a female person - so if they didn't say 'I am non-binary' or whatever, that would be first question anyway. "Oh Kevin is an unusual name for a woman..."

This was NOT the name they were baptised. Obviously.

Relating to my comment above about it being a suprise for the graduate recruit to find out that the workplace wasn’t entirely heterosexual/closeted. I’ve had the lectures many times from my neice about SJW stuff and I’ve run out of ways to try and tell her that my generation fought these fights too and we keep building. I think many young people have limited ideas about us on the other side of the interview table sometimes and think they are informing us about entirely novel ideas. I’m not discriminating, I just need to know how they are with problem solving, accessing data, prioritising tasks etc. We’ll get to reasonable adjustments once we’ve worked out that they can make a start on the job 🤷‍♀️

When I was recruiting people the recruitment process was not just about the job applicant's skills but whether the person would be a good fit with the existing team. We had some existing staff who were a nightmare but impossible to manage out of the business without a tribunal claim. I anticipate any employer would worry about the increased risk of an existing employee or your child raising grievances or bringing a tribunal claim.

I can anticipate issues such as bathrooms etc or staff refusing to use preferred pronouns or bullying your child - so the issues may be entirely outside your child's control but by flagging up their non binary status at interview it is a massive flag for the recruiter.

Is the solution to focus on pronoun friendly employers such as the NHS or civil service rather than small firms who like my old firm are often terrified of getting tied up in tribunals - not necessarily initiated by your child but by existing staff.

I am disabled so that is a massive flag when applying for work as it is always assumed I won't be able to pull my weight etc - so I fully appreciate that what I am saying isn't fair but probably realistic

They present as non-binary by saying "Hello my name is <male name> and my pronouns are 'they/them'" (They are a natal female.)

I'd initially think they were a silly vain child, and having worked with trans and NB people I've found them a pain in the arse, constant attention seeking, and trying to turn all sorts of scenarios around to being about gender.

Unless they were absolutely fantastic and blew all other candidates out of the water I wouldn't be keen to hire them, especially if they mentioned gender politics in the interview.

Same as if someone brought their religion or politics into the interview.