AIBU to think that even if Labour are mediocre then they are STILL BETTER THAN WHAT WE HAD BEFORE?

[Cluborange666]

Not worshipping Starmer btw. There are plenty of things I would like to see him do that he hasn’t. BUT it’s still an improvement on the Tory pantomime.
(This is really just because I’m bored of the ‘sick of Labour?’ daily threads.)

Nah Lammy congratulated the Azerbaijan govenment for ethnically cleansing Nagorno Karabakh. It’s not like it’s not been in the papers, it’s been going on for ages. If I know about it then David Lammy should definitely know about it, fool.

I think it’s been a shit start and I’m not optimistic about the rest of it either.

Yanbu, the last lot were beyond - with the lies, deals for mates, racist retoric and general disrespect for parliament and the electorate.

Hearing the old guard like John Major and Ken Clarke talking sense in recent interviews, no sound bites, measured, really brings home how bad the Tory party had become.

I do think, as PPs have said, that Labour need some sharper PR and to sack all the internal people messaging the journos with shitty non stories. They were still talking about Starmer's free glasses on C4 news earlier... when they could be talking about the house building plans, think of what that would do for young people getting on the ladder!

It's still possible for poorer pensioners not on pension credit to suffer. "...but my rich relatives" comments are shortsighted and ( deliberately?) missing the point, and are frankly annoying at this point
I have no wish nor need for WFA. That doesn't mean I can't conceive that some may need it and no longer qualify

For comparison, DH and I retired pre 2016 so our basic state pensions start from a base of around £50 a week less than younger retirees. I don’t have a full state pension anyway, no NI credits for SAHMs when my DC were young.

I do however have a small occupational pension, and when all is added together our income is less than £20k pa. Too low to pay income tax, too high to be eligible for any benefits. We can afford to heat our home, and eat. Heating bills may take some of our small savings, we feel lucky we have some left! Please be aware there are many pensioners, especially those living alone, who are living on even smaller incomes that are still too high to attract PC. Lots of them will suffer this winter. They aren’t like your mam and dad, who have a higher income in retirement than many households ever have.

Well, from what you say, sounds like much of a muchness or 2 sides of the same arse! So, government as usual then.

I am feeling this government might be quite draconian compared to the last as it's "running scared" and trying to prove itself. I don't expect it will last.

Give them 2 or 3 years to actually do something. There's no point expecting them to reverse the last 15 years in a few weeks

Policy wise I don't think they've got too much wrong so far (very early days though) but the fact that they seem unable to view accepting the gifts of clothing and accomodation that have been mentioned in the press recently as anything other than wrong, even if it was within 'the rules' (for what they are worth) doesn't speak well of their character(s) or fill me with much hope that the 'change' they keep talking about will actually happen in any real and meaningful way.

Depends who you are. If you're a union member then you'll no doubt be happy with your massive payrises and changes to working conditions (as promised by Labour and already started. If you're middle class and or a pensioner then you're fucked.

@Evilartsgrad plenty of younger people on poor wages living in shared houses paying rent or working single parents on very modest incomes paying rent or mortgages no doubt would think they are just as deserving of a fuel credit . Where do you draw the line.? As I said in my post I would have set the level higher to low £20s - but yes even then it would no longer be available to 2 out of 3 pensioners because many don't like to be upfront and say they have £3k a month or more coming in and no mortgage or rent - which is more than plenty of working families or single people of working age have. I find it ironic that so many of the Daily Mail brigade make a huge fuss about benefits- unless of course it's something that they themselves get .

@Gymnopedie and what would that be that they have done? As so far I disagree with very little- including the winter fuel
Payment- ( although I would raise the level at which it kicks in) what else do you disagree with hugely? Paying hospital doctors more- yep I agree with that- very poorly paid for the responsibility- sorting the train strikes? Handing out custodial sentences quickly to bucket loads of ignorant yobs- yep I'm all for that! Cancelling Rwanda-? Was never going to happen anyway- pure bluster that cost huge amounts of money.

@Gymnopedie

fullfact.org/economy/millionaire-pensioners/

@Seymour5 and yes, your circumstances are exactly why I would have set the limit higher -

Actually I am happy as a union member that this Government is engaging with unions, professional colleges and associations rather than ignoring them like the Tories did. It was especially important to sort out the National Rail/TOCs mess because the new Government wants to put a good chunk of the railway back in public hands, which the RMT in particular are supportive of (though it goes a long way from the ideal). So pay settlements are the carrot, basically.

The RCN has rejected their 5.5% pay offer by democratic vote. I'm waiting to see how that plays out.

As for Keir himself I'm not a fan, he's too right wing for me, and as pp said, he's just re-packaging "austerity" as "short-term pain". I wonder which aide brainstormed that one. Taking the piss out of the 2019 conference was a misfire too. I'm not a Corbynite, he has some dodgy ideas, but come on! Tory-lite. And don't get me started in that stupid winter fuel payment policy...

I didn't vote Labour.
I've never voted Labour.

I am delighted with the Hillsborough Law that PM Starmer announced today. About fucking time. I'm tired of historical sham inquiries that benefited the powerful and cost the British people dearly.
👏👏👏

It's too soon to tell IMO. But I don't think it's looking great.

I had no hopes for Labour really being better, but I did think there could be some benefit to having a different set of lousy people in, with a different type of lousy ideas.

But they seem to be pretty bereft of ideas.

They made a massive mistake removing the Winter Fuel Payments from everyone except pensioners on Pension Credits, why ever they didn't put a levy on Energy providers to pay for it I will never know. I voted Labour at the election but after seeing my 85 year old DM nearly in tears worrying if she will be able to afford her winter gas bill I will have a serious think about voting for someone else at the next election.

Thank you. We can afford our heating, we overpay in the summer, and our DC have offered to help should we need it. There are many worse off who can’t.

It’s the assumption that if not on Pension Credit every pensioner is well off that is worrying, that’s obviously not so. There was an expectation that a Labour Government, especially with a deputy PM from Rayner’s background, would know that.

Yes it's massively better already on loads of things. Loving the instant action on renewables, adults back in the room on climate diplomacy, feel happy about the workers rights, renters rights bill.

I was genuinely disappointed by the clothing thing. Buy your own clothes FFS if your brand is basically being holier-than-thou. But at least they are trying to fix some things.

Is there a list anywhere collating all policy announcements from the conference?

Sir Keir Starmer suggested he took £20,000 in donations towards accommodation from Labour peer Lord Alli so that his teenage son would not be disturbed while revising for his exams.

The total sum of accommodation included the use of an £18 million penthouse in Covent Garden

Seriously?

There are pensioners with incomes of £12k a year who won’t qualify for the payment now though. I’m not sure many would argue that an income of £1k per month will enable a comfortable life.

I absolutely wanted the Tories gone but for the life of me I couldn't see what Starmer was offering that would change the country for the better.

I'm completely dismayed by how disastrous this government is shaping up to be.

@Seymour5 my view is it should have been set at the level of 2 people on standard full pension 'as it is now' - I know myself I wasn't aware that pensioners that retired pre 2016 are on lesser state pension than the current rate. This would allow for single pensioners getting a state pension plus a small occupational one , couples like yourselves where one party isn't getting much at all and couples where both are in state pension only . I agree with the policy in principle but think the point it kicks in is wrong-personally I think they had bad advice and this should be revisited. The extra help though needs targeting at people like yourself- not across the board

They are all pretty crap.

The difference is mainly the Tories will at least make some attempt not to tax the crap out of you while delivering appalling services and scandal after scandal.

Labour will tax the crap out of you while delivering appalling services and scandal after scandal.

I find all parties the same. Never stick to the manifesto and just do as they please for themselves.
Nothing will change