To think that parents should be more responsible for their children’s behaviour in public?

[Silentfriend]

Yesterday I had an experience at a cafe where a group of kids were running around, shouting, and causing chaos while their parents seemed oblivious, chatting away without intervening. It really got me thinking about how parents are often not held accountable for their children’s behaviour in public spaces.

I feel that part of being a parent includes teaching kids how to behave in social situations. It felt unfair to those of us trying to enjoy our time when it seemed like the parents didn’t care about the impact their children were having.

AIBU for feeling frustrated about this? Shouldn’t parents step up and take responsibility, or am I being too harsh?

Gentle parenting! 🤣🤣🤣🤣

So in every single restaurant in Spain and Italy if children are being loud they get sent outside? And that's being child friendly is it? So over here if a couple of 5 year olds are running about screaming they should be sent outside by themselves onto busy main roads in the pouring rain? Without even telling their parents?

Loads of restaurants I've been to are child friendly. Have children's menus. Often have some colouring in or activity sheets to do. Some have a play area. Child friendly doesn't mean that children should be welcome to crawl under another couples table at 9pm. And as others have pointed out, in this country if you do tell children not to do that, the parents will shout AT YOU for daring to tell their child off.

It's possible to quietly parent, keeping public loudness for actual danger.

A lot of people on this thread are talking about a "village" but we can't have that in the UK, those days are gone.

A village means an entire community (family, friends, neighbours, teachers, strangers etc) participating in raising children into decent, well rounded adults. This involves looking out for them, guiding them and keeping them out of mischief. This will involve teaching them right from wrong and disciplining them if necessary. But parents are expected to play their part in laying the foundations of their child's behaviour, and pulling their weight in raising their dc day in day out.

In the UK parenting has become very insular. Parents struggle to manage their dc's behaviour, but rather than asking for help and guidance they get defensive. They see anyone else trying to help as interfering and they take offense. They complain about this interference because doing so is more palatable than facing up their own failures.

Add to that the modern concept from some parents that their children are the centre of the universe and you have a perfect storm. Some parents think that no one has the right to tell their children off, and that only behaviour that they themselves deem unacceptable should be disciplined, and only by themselves. They don't consider that other people might have different standards of children's behaviour, or that their child's behaviour could be having a negative impact on others. Just because you think it's fine, it doesn't mean that it's fine for everyone else.

So no, we don't get to have a "village" to raise our dc in the UK because people are scared of getting a mouthful if they try to guide a child in learning right from wrong.

Yes- young children’s ears are biologically designed to respond to low frequencies… has anyone told that to Ms Rachel.

A French friend of a dd said not long ago that French parents were rather stricter (more harsh were IIRC her actual words) than U.K. parents. Should add that she’s a mother of 3 and has lived in the U.K.

There was a book not long ago entitled ‘French Children Don’t Throw Food’.
Presumably the gist of the contents were that French parents don’t allow them to!

As a pp said, ‘child friendly’ is too often taken in the U.K. to mean that children should be allowed to behave exactly as they like, no matter where they happen to be. And anyone who dares to object is an evil child-hater.

I agree and it should be like this, however I do feel like there's enough modern parents that would take issue with their child being told off that it would make me hesitate even though I otherwise have no issue reminding kids what they ought to be doing or why something is dangerous.

Depends on the parents and in any family/friend contexts we're all in full village mode but I've actually had people tell me not to tell off other people's children (not parents but when I've mentioned seeing poor behaviour and being on the verge of correcting, people I mentioned it to have said not to get involved). Interested to hear what you think though!

Oh I agree. DS3 was having a tantrum in M&S a month or so ago. I took him outside and stood out of the way holding his hands and talking him out of his tantrum. Practicing his breathing and using his words etc. The number of weird looks I got, yet they'd be the same one giving me daggers at him rolling around on the floor in M&S... Like you say damned if you do and damned if you don't.

Who is Ms Rachel?

I've been known to pick up my tantruming child and carry her out of a shop to deal with her. Because in a shop isn't the place is it. Calmed her down elsewhere. The looks I got for carrying a screaming child out we're either huge sympathy or proper judgement.

A lot of parents also do not realise they don’t need to be loud to be effective. Constantly shouting at kids to stop doing something isn’t effective if they haven’t stopped doing it. Say it once and if it continues then go over and stop them. If they can’t stop, remove them. I was out yesterday and saw two families who couldn’t control their kids. Couple A just yelled threats loudly the whole time. Nothing happened. Couple B whimpered “don’t do that”, “stop doing that” on loop. Nothing happened. Just no boundaries and no awareness it was a pain for people around them trying to have a nice time. If kids don’t learn that when you say no, you mean no, they will run rings around you. On holiday this summer I saw kids at the hotel buffet going up and putting their fingers in food, helping themselves and dropping things on the floor. Young kids need supervision but some parents just don’t care and unfortunately you are 100% going to be faced with aggression if you dare comment on it these days.

It's the following through on consequences that doesn't happen too. I'll do the whole "stop that". "If you don't stop that then X will happen". "If you haven't stopped by 3 then X is happening" "1,2,3....ok, X". Cue tears. But after twice of the consequences actually happening, the threat is usually all that's needed and it can be delivered in a very calm way.

I have friends who do the whimpering thing and then complain about meltdowns (which are actually just tantrums) and kids not listening.

Follow through. Or they know there's no consequences.

Very true.

But saw a child breaking violently little tree branch and told him not to and he tills me n the most bratty voice that I'm or his mother and he'll do whatever he wants.
His mother was standing there 2 meters away from him fully engaged in conversation with someone else, couldn't care less.

I totally agree with you, I see it all too often and as a parent I am quite appalled that parents just sit oblivious to their kids running around cafes/ restaurants. It's annoying, it's not the place to do that and it's not safe.
I have 2 DC, my eldest listened and would stop and tbh she just seemed to alway know how to behave so was pretty easy. My DS now 6 however, needs constant reminders/ been told to sit etc, and he's finally getting the memo, but I have never sat and ignored it and why would you? I just don't get those that do, but there are plenty of them!

You are not being unreasonable at all. Yesterday I was sharing a lift with another family in museum. The kid, no older than 10. Smiled and let me get off first. I said thank you. He said 'you're welcome'. This encounter stuck with me because it was so unusual. Nearly every time I go to a museum or gallery there are kids running riot who really ought to know better, parents are not in sight/in the cafe.

At the same time @SusieBBB has a great point about the swimming scenario. I wouldn't have a problem with that. If you don't like the sound of traffic don't by a house on the main road.

I have 5, my parenting has most definitely evolved over the years. Started off (15 years ago now) feeling like DH and I were such enlightened, laid back, modern, liberated parents. About 5 years in and I soon started to place a higher regard on gentle but firm and unyielding discipline and boundaries.

But letting kids run about cafes is not only selfish to the other customers but it's also really thick and dangerous. Morons.

It's very rare I take mine as toddlers to cafes, children like to run about! I'd get my hot drink to go from the national trust cafe and drink it outside while they ran about. Or fill up a flask and drive to the beach. Never once in 15 years have I sat in Costa while my children dashed about or watched an electronic device. Poor parenting.

I mean I did get some looks whilst carrying him out over my shoulder screaming I won't lie. I couldn't give a toss though. He walked back in nicely holding my hand ten minutes later when he'd had the boundary explained again to him.

I used to know someone who evidently quietly enjoyed it when her children were annoying other people in public. She’d sit there with a secret little smile on her face, while doing or saying nothing. She had form for occasional anti social behaviour, though, so I dare say she enjoyed seeing her children doing what she’d have quite liked to do, too.

My youngest is 19 now and I do think behaviour is worse.
It's nearly impossible to go into a cafe without there being under 5s being left to wander whilst mummy chats.
It's not my job to chat to or entertain your child, then in a restaurant again wandering or listening to tablets at deafening levels. Screaming, shouting kids and not one adult asks them to quieten down.
It's not about being child friendly it's about parents actually parenting.
If your child cannot sit at a table then don't bring them.

@MidnightPatrol
You can’t restrain them all the time though, they do need some opportunities to explore.
but not behind a reception desk, it's not cute or funny. The amount of parents who smile and laugh at bad behaviour/lazy parenting is frustrating.

Sounds like you were doing a great job though! People can be so annoying

Just ask the children to be quieter nicely. Kids listen to others more than their parents.

That’s a pretty normal behaviour for a toddler though.
as long as parent gets him pretty quickly i don’t see a problem?

It's not normal to let a toddler run around in places they shouldn't be, such as behind a reception desk.

I agree, but I think we've made it really hard to do that. Everything is structured around cars, so it's hard to find safe walkable places for kids