To think we shouldn't habitually lie to children?

[mossylog]

I've got a toddler who wanted some more chips. My mum was staying for dinner and she said "there's none left" to encourage him to eat more vegetables on his plate— there were a bunch left, which my son could have seen for himself if he'd looked carefully. I didn't make a deal of it at the time, but it annoyed me.

Lying to manipulate your child into desired behaviour seems bad to me. Parents who say "the batteries are dead" when they don't children to watch TV, it's just conflict avoidant and eventually erodes trust.

This isn't just about the chips, my mum tells constant inconsequential lies constantly. Pretending she's heard of something you're talking about, or that she's been to a place she hasn't. Never admitting ignorance, always wanting to seem informed. The upshot is, she gets on with every stranger she meets straight away, but I can't trust half the things she says.

YABU: white lies for social convenience are fine, everyone does it, or maybe it's fine when it's done to small children for an easy life.

YANBU: we should model being honest to children and we should avoid bullshitting

I think you're very well placed to know that lying to children is counterproductive OP. Sorry, but your mother sounds tiresome.

• No you can't have more chips. Or you can have more chips after you've finished your vegetables. Tough.

There are really very few occasions in life when lies are necessary.

A bit like father Christmas won't bring you presents if you are naughty. Or rather we won't buy them if you are naughty etc.

We don't celebrate Christmas, so this one always threw me!

This one gave me way too many sleepless nights as an anxious new mum. I didn't want to lie to my smalls about anything...so how to handle FC/Tooth fairy/Easter Bunny etc. In the end I decided there were bigger things to worry about 😂 so lies in the name of creating magic are okay 😉

But have managed to be pretty honest in other areas. Should have seen my mother's face when she tried to tell DC they wouldn't like her pudding because it was spicy and I opted for the truth which was just that I didn't want to share mine (they had had dessert, wasn't being completely heartless!)

I think you need to relax. I don't think a little white lie hurts or is going to permenantly damage your sons trust in you.

I lie all the time to avoid tantrums (still get a fair few). I don't intend to lie for the rest of my life though, and would never act like I know something I don't. I hope once my kids are more reasonable, I can start to be more honest.

I feel like this is so common in the older generation! My in laws do it ALL THE TIME and it’s so annoying because I don’t want to then undermine them in front of them.

It’s just lazy imo.

Don't give father Christmas all the credit! @Dontmakemethegrinch 🤣

Oh I don't know, sometimes you have to just make life easier for yourself, especially with toddlers.

Yes of course it would be more factually correct to tell him no, I don't want to cook more chips, you can eat the vegetables if you are hungry - or no, chips are yummy but a balanced diet is important - but most toddlers won't really understand these reasonings and therefore are inclined to start whining instead which is pretty wearing. IME they do tend to accept "there aren't any left".

With mine they have all been tired by dinner time and it is a bit of a tightrope to get them to eat much of anything at all, and if they didn't eat or got wound up at that time it would just snowball into derailing bedtime, so I definitely wouldn't be inviting a tantrum if I could help it.

Yeah I accept it's conflict avoidant. But you have to pick your battles with toddlers and this isn't a battle I'd think was particularly important to have and in this case I'd prefer to swerve it entirely rather than concede. They have plenty of time to learn about balanced diets or the effort involved in cooking or indeed the importance of being upfront and honest.

Lying is pretty socially normal.

I don't think I'm going to start telling young children that their artwork is rubbish, or teens that they almost certainly will fail to achieve their ambition. It wouldn't be kind or helpful.

Yes ma'am

As a parent you do need to instill the morals and boundries that are important to you and stick to them.

As a grandparent she can take the path of least resistance in things that are harmless enough because she's done her parenting.

I get why you find it irritating, but you know to take whatever she says with a pinch of salt,your dc will grow up knowing the same.

Lying is a horrid behaviour.
I agree, we shouldn’t do it to children.

This.

What on earth is wrong with being conflict avoidant? Obviously you can't avoid every conflict but surely it's human nature to avoid if easily possible with children and adults?! Who wants to be conflict embracing? Apart from people like Trump?

Exactly.

Parents teach child to tell the truth always.

Kid is always honest, offends people, makes people upset. Doesn't understand social norms.

Parent mis queries neurodiversity.

Parents need to relax and go with the flow. All this stressing about doing the 'right' thing constantly, it's too much. Too much judgement and intensity. We ALL lie sometimes, it's normal. If I always told my colleagues what I thought of their performance, I'd be out of a job!

No I disagree, particularly with young children.

If I don’t want my 4 year old to have more chips it’s much better to say there are none left and she will happily eat the rest of her dinner. Pointing out that there are loads left, but not for you is unnecessarily inflammatory for a 4 year old. They can’t fully regulate their emotions so getting upset that something is in front of them but they don’t completely understand why the “no” is there just stirs the situation into something much bigger than it needs to be.

Same as “it’s run out of batteries” why would “turn that fucking thing off, I’m sick of hearing that grating tune go around and around in my head all day, I think this gift was an act of war from your uncle” be a better response?

I don’t actually believe honesty is always the best policy for young children.

This. Do you read your dc 'Winnie the Shit and the About 100 Acre Wood' to avoid ambiguity OP?

There’s a huge school of thought that embracing conflict and managing it constructively is a positive thing. It wouldn’t necessarily apply to a toddler, but in this case there would be value in making a child understand that it’s not possible to have more chips.

i mean - of course lying is bad - so OP, you tell your children father christmas is fake, so is the tooth fairy etc etc?

I think sometimes, there is a need to lie - its surely dependent on situation...

i lie to my children all the time:

”I love that picture”
”of course I want to hear about your Minecraft world”
”thank you for making me a cup of tea, it tastes lovely”
”Harry Potter again? Brilliant”

I sort of agree. I think it’s ok to lie sometimes. I try to do practical things like taking food like that out of sight when it’s time to eat vegetables. And my kids take “no” a lot better than I thought they would anyway.

like you I have a close relative who is a committed bullshitter so I don’t lie to my own kids too much😅

Also children have a naturally honest and incredibly blunt demeanour which as parents we need to iron out due to social norms.
Being honest with no filter in the name of “not lying” is unkind at best and can be nasty and rude at worse.
Things my 2 year old will say before guidance that aren’t socially acceptable
Why is her hair short, that’s for boys?
Whats on your face?
Why does he walk funny?
That dress is not pretty.

Now the alternative to these is to not tell the truth, according to him anyway, therefore white lies. Are you suggesting the truth is really the only way forward in every situation?

As society we operate with white lies being the social norm and pleasantries being social currency. You might think you’re more godly because you’re so honest but in reality you probably come across as rude and socially awkward.

What a terrible mother, full of lies!!

Or that there's even a father's Christmas in the first place!!!

Or Easter bunny ...

I think the chips thing with a young toddler is just sensible to avoid a tantrum or upset. They're too young to rationalise. I hate lies that may hurt children though or upset them like the way some idiots use Elf on the Shelf.

I do get what you're saying op but on occasion lies are necessary. My preschooler once pointed at a sign in boots for viagra and said mummy what's that and I am pretty confident that my 'I don't know' was the right card to play there 😅