Family member awarded enhanced pip - AIBU?

[Orangecrocs]

My family member has just been awarded enhanced pip in both living and mobility components.
Shes told me that she’s twisted the truth during the assessment and told the assessor that she has lots of pain and can’t really walk at all, but she walks all the time as I see her out and about - we live in a hilly area. I know people who are in a wheelchair and struggle to get enhanced rate - so I really don’t understand how she’s managed this.
I know people will say mind your own business but she’s told me she’s actually lied to them.

A single person on LCWRA gets £809pm. If they were on the highest rates of both PIP components, then that is a further £732pm. That is still less than someone on full time NMW

Plus, people on NMW get a UC top up. People solely on benefits don't. It literally does pay to work.

I'd report anyone who I knew to be doing this, or who admitted it. Scumbags.

@Bornnotbourne I'm a nurse , I don't do any of that. I'm office based in a hospital.

It’s not means tested though and you can be working on PIP so you could do both! Or you could also claim ESA.

They will have asked all the specialists involved . You have to put names, addresses and contact numbers on the application.

Did you not realise that?

As an advice team we have a number of clients who we know to be claiming fraudulently by either not reporting changes, or for example by living with a partner and not reporting changes ( still claiming sdp etc). We have been told that all we can do is encourage clients to do the correct thing, put it in writing, document it in their case notes etc. We are not allowed to report benefit fraud. It is a very difficult job to do at times, on one hand very rewarding helping people to claim what they are entitled to but also very frustrating seeing a lot of other things that go on, people being open about knocking ten thousand pounds off the figures they have given to the local authority for savings etc when paying for care etc and just having to try an ignore. There are a lot of dishonest people out there and some people seem unable to see it. I do understand people's frustration at the system but fraud is not the way to go !

Why do some posters find it so hard to believe that people do lie and exaggerate to get PIP and they also have no problem bragging about it to their friends and relatives. The people who genuinely do need it tend to downplay how shit everything is because nobody wants to tell someone that they can't walk to the bathroom and end up sitting in their own shit and piss do they. I know someone who can get about just fine but told the assessor that they can't and it's also what they tell their doctor and consultant and it's not hearsay because i was sat there at the actual assessment (done by phone) what am I meant to do? Report them? How can I prove that they are lying when their own doctor and consultants can back up their claim. I'm not bashing anyone on benefits because I'm on them myself and it's not something I brag about because I'm ashamed and I have a tendency to downplay stuff too. In my experience PIP is not hard to get if you know what you are doing and it's not as strict as some posters are making out. Maybe it depends on the area though because as much as some posters are saying "it's bollocks it's not as easy as that" I'm sat here saying "it's not bollocks it is easy from what I have seen" or maybe I just know a lot of people with no morals that have no shame lol

I’m not saying it’s easy….I’m saying the way the system is currently set up ….no one ‘has’ to provide medical evidence …….it is your choice to……of course it is going to be in your favour…..but some people who apply have no medical evidence as they have no diagnosis as such……especially with mental health…..therefore any evidence they provide is not ‘medical’ …..it may be their diary…..or a letter from a family member telling about the impact of a persons condition on their day to day life.

But that’s it…..that’s exactly how pip is set up at the moment….you can apply without a shred of medical evidence ( although labour wanting to change this) …..im not saying you will get it…..but people do do this…..people who don’t have a diagnosis.,,,,I have known people with mental health issues send in a mood diary and some letters from family and friends with explanations about how the persons mental health impacts on their day to day life…..and that’s it, nothing else.

I'm sure a minority of people do lie. How many though is another question. It's not much money at all from what people have said on this thread of the amount given.

Can't be that many people who put themselves through the stress and degrading process, every few years, when not genuinely eligible so risking getting into trouble if found out? Especially as there's so much stigma by society around being on benefits.

Some people commit crimes. All sorts of crimes. And it's very possible that the minority of benefit fraudsters would just commit a different crime if they weren't doing that one.

The majority of genuine claimants shouldn't and mustn't suffer just because of a minority of people who might not be.

Also as I said, re the economic implications. There's the flip side. People who aren't claiming when they should be, are very much eligible, and in need of the help. From what I recall official figures suggest there's more in this group than the former.

People can, if they want to waste their time, apply for a job without meeting any of the job requirements - experience or skills needed. Just being able to apply for something doesn't mean the person will get what they applied for. Just means someone's filled in a form and likely wasted their time. The poster you're replying to said they had to send detailed medical history to be given PIP.

@Ihopeithinkiknow I'm so sorry you feel ashamed. It's awful there's stigma and discrimination towards benefits in general, and separately illness and disability Nobody chooses to be ill or disabled. You deserve the help and support.

And how much would it cost to have ppl checking all the accounts & receipts, making sure claimants don’t waste money on a bar of chocolate or a takeaway? That’s before you even think about the human side of it! What a horrible comment!

This. Disabled people who are, one of society's poorest and most vulnerable group, deserve dignity. It's already hard enough being ill or disabled. And from what it sounds like a pretty degrading process to get benefits (which are really a rather pitiful amount of money).

By your argument @20yearrenovation because some people shoplift, every single shopper and employee including managers should be searched every single time they enter and leave every single shop they go into.

What in all honesty has it got to do with you? Are you bored? Are you jealous? Are you speculating on what her needs are without actually knowing? Get busy and live your own life!

A few years ago, the government said benefit fraud was estimated to be 0.7% (can't now remember which department this was, maybe the ONS or the OBR?). However, so many people weren't claiming benefits to which they were entitled, that even allowing for the fraud, they were still saving money! Not sure 'saving money' is quite the right term, but you know what I mean.

PiP is nothing at all to do with whether or not you can work. Plenty of working people get it. It's money to help with the extra cost of living due to having a disability or long term health condition.

I am in receipt of PIP myself…..I DID send medical evidence….I know how the system works…….the most important evidence you send is the PIP document which you self complete. …I know someone who sent no medical evidence at all, because they didn’t have any as such…..so just mood diary…..letter from her mum ( who is her carer) , letter from her neighbour who knows her well, and a copy of an old school ehcp ( this was a historic document) ……the thing that got her an award was an extremely well completed pip document……describing her difficulties and how they impact on her life and giving real life examples, in relation to the descriptors…..now I’m not saying all people will get pip without medical evidence,…of course they won’t…..but it is possible …..and to be fair this lady was likely deserving from what I knew of her …..never went out….lots of anxiety …..but who knows 🤷‍♀️

Yes, and you forgot safely. Reliably, repeatedly and safely. If you can't do all of the above, then technically you are deemed not to be able to do that activity at all. Not sure assessors adhere to that though.

I think sometimes people just see the good days
They would see me as working full time, able to play netball, use my peloton, cook nice meals, keep my house clean etc
On the bad days I work (from home), and go to bed without eating. Or I'll be screaming in pain on the floor

There's no predicting either so I might be fine in the morning and not able to move in the afternoon. I don't get PIP before anyone judges, not entitled

Not relevant whether they can work or not. Plenty of working people are awarded PIP. Most disabled people or people with chronic health conditions will need extra money. They are likely to be at home more so will use more heating, they are likely to spend longer in the shower so another extra cost. They will probably have to pay for their shopping to be delivered as may not be able to get round the shops. They will probably have to pay for taxis or use part of their PIP on a Motability vehicle (Enhanced Mobility award only). They will need to pay someone to do the household chores they can't manage. The list goes on.

It would be very easy to prove they are exaggerating or lying about pain etc
Fraud investigators follow people, if you walk miles when you aren't supposed to be able to and you do it more often than you should or you go to bingo etc alone it's very obvious it's fraud

£809 + £732 pm is a pretty good income.

There are some incredibly naive people on this thread.

There are private Facebook groups dedicated to what to say on PIP forms to ensure a successful claim. Not for disabled people. For people who want PIP as a top-up, and ask for help with providing conditions that they cannot prove.

I'm a disabled wheelchair user. When I applied for PIP, I had zero medical evidence. I suffer with medical trauma and PTSD and avoided healthcare at all costs. I was still awarded PIP, higher rate for both elements.

I'm not sure why people think PIP is hard to get. It used to be slightly harder, but now most assessments are done over the phone, it's even easier to lie, should you so wish to.

A colleague of mine frequently laughs about how she made up depression and back pain and now she has a free car. She finds it hilarious. She keeps a wheelchair in her house in case anyone comes to check (she also claims wheelchair user council tax discount). She does extreme sports, mountain climbing, marathons, etc. People like this exist, and they truly believe that it's OK, because the government is "screwing over" everyone, so they may as well get what they can.

The PIP system is completely broken, and people know it. It's amusing that non-disabled people will argue that it isn't.

To get enhanced daily living you need to be unable to toilet yourself, wash or dress yourself and feed yourself. You need to be entirely dependant upon others. How on earth has she faked this? Was it a telephone assessment?
This is the problem with these assessments which aren't in person, anything can be said

Report her then. If you feel she’s lied, report her. I don’t see what posts like this achieve,