Teachers given lie-ins and extra days off

[LaughingPig]

The Guardian is reporting today that state schools are offering perks in an attempt to attract and retain teachers. These include lie-ins, whereby teachers will start later one day a week, a day off each fortnight and even the chance to work from home.

Clearly there is an issue with getting enough high-quality teachers into the profession and keeping them there. However, I’m not sure how these initiatives will go down with taxpayers on the back of successive teachers’ strikes, schools closing for months during lockdown and now inflation-busting pay rises.

Would you be happy with your DC’s teacher arriving to school late after a relaxing lie-in or logging on from home?

YABU- teachers deserve lie-ins
YANBU- teachers should be in class teaching DC

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40,000 teachers last year agreed with you,

It doesn't mean that we shouldn't try and make it better.

Certain subjects can vary hugely over time due to curriculum focus and what different exam boards asses - do you think schools have taught the same history for the last 50 years??. Not to mention the fact that every generation has been taught how to do basic maths differently - lots have heard "well we weren't taught it like this in my day".

I work from home in a high paying professional career. I don’t open my blinds during the day because the sun blares in.

I am a secondary teacher. My average day was as follows arrive by 8am at latest. From that moment I am 'on' I work until morning break where I have 15 minutes but actually most mornings a pupil comes to see me so I don't have a break I don't even get a chance to go to the toilet, I then teach until 12.40 when lunch starts, one day a week I am expected to be on corridor or lunch diry so I am essentially working through my unpaid lunch break, another day I have a departmental meeting, another day I have an extra curricular club which I do not get paid extra for. On the other days I work through my lunch so I can leave at 3.45 when my school day ends. Very likely those cars that left at 3pm were not off to the gym or to have a wee short d but trying to pick up kids to minimise childcare costs or to take their own kids to activities. Trust me those 3pm leavers are definitely working later in the day The amount of emails I have from staff with kids through until 11/12 at night is unreal.
As for the holiday provision, yes they are good but I would have taken less to actually have some flexibility. On the day I have off, if parents night is scheduled I still have to come in, on my day off because my contracts takes I must complete parents evenings I receive no compensation for this

A good friend has just become an HT at a school with low staff retention and high staff sickness. They asked all staff to give a morning or afternoon in the week they would like protected (by morning up to 9.30/ leave at 2 30) and three 'blocks of leave they could request per year' e.g. a morning, afternoon or one day.. It meant someone could go to a gym class that runs until 9, could do the school drop off, avoid one day of crazy traffic, do some Xmas shopping, see the school show, come back on a Monday from a mini break, attend that wedding weekend abroad. Giving the staff some autonomy and flexibility meant not a single staff member left the school last year, their staff absence dropped significantly and staff satisfaction scored highly, as a result the club offering, staff involvement also increased which in turn improved parent and pupil satisfaction too.

Free gym membership and bus travel will not be offered by private businesses, instead your local authorities, schools etc will have to subsidise it. That same money is your precious tax payer money that is going to be spent on long lies and leaving early.
I should also add I work in a school with no parking. Out emplyer actively encourage public transport. Free bus travel would just make my day even longer. Seversl of my colleagues cannot affford to pay for off sute parking It means their day starts with leavibg home at 6am to get to work on time. Abother colleague had to leave the school because foibg school drop off on public transport meant lraving with kids at 6.30 and then having to pay for breakfast clubs because she had to be on a 7 20 bus to get to school on time As for the gym membership I suppose I can use it during my lovely long holidays because I have very little time the rest of the year to carve out time for the gym.

I do get that teachers should be offered flexibility where possible, but I do think they already have a lot more than other workplaces.

Amazing that there is such a retention crisis then, isn’t it?

I think what lots are saying is that they are being paid as advance teacher practitioners and are restricted to MPS/UPS. Schools can only afford a small number on UPS and beyond.

In my 15 years of teaching the absolute maximum TLR that I have ever known to be given to a teacher is 3000. That's only for the core subjects, maths and English. The fact is that the majority of teachers do have additional leadership responsibilities and do not get paid a penny for them.

I have also been teaching just in London for over ten years so I am in the UPS. I am one of the teachers on a salary of 60k. Except I had to go part time because the hours are so long that I would basically not see my child during the week. I leave home at 7 when my DD wakes up and I work until 5:30/6 and get home for 6/6:30. My daughters bedtime is 7. I have never been able to attend a single nursery event/workshop/stay and play for my child.

I am not the only one. Every single female teacher in my school with a child has had to go part time due to the poor life imbalance. This is problematic as these are the more experienced staff members. Our knowledge and expertise, which we teach our new colleagues, is what ensures children do get a good education. Not that our new colleagues last long. The majority of new teachers leave in the first 5 years. I currently mentor an exceptional NQT who is already planning to leave the profession at the end of the year because the demands are too high. It's also not just the early teachers. Many more experienced teachers are leaving the profession. Not only do we not have enough teachers, we do not have enough experienced teachers to support the new teachers.

Education is on its knees and you are begrudging teachers getting to take their PPA time, time they would not be with the kids anyway, from home. This level of pettiness and pulling out the 'i pay the teachers' card is one of the factors contributing to the retention crisis. It's such a knobhead attitude. Teachers pay their fucking taxes too, does that mean we are 'self employed' and get to work whatever hours we want?

On a final note. The £150k salary is for leadership. That is not a teaching salary so completely fucking redundant. It's like saying a minimum wage worker at McDonald's could earn the same as the CEO.

You don’t seem to understand the scales. Automatic progression is to M6. You don’t necessarily keep that if you move jobs though - you might drop down and have to start at a lower point. UPS 1-3 are discretionary and carry extra responsibilities. Some teachers don’t want those as it’s tough enough. If you do, it’s discretionary and most schools refuse to award them. Anything above that is promotion to a management role. You understand most people won’t be managers?

Teachers are taxpayers too... Just saying.

What you think you can earn 16k extra for "making a timetable"?!

Are you sure your husband is a headteacher? If he has time to count cars I doubt it!

@Matronic6

The McDonald’s comparison is erroneous as the vast majority of headteachers are teachers. Theoretically therefore, every teacher has the opportunity to take up a headship post (which is not the case at McDonald’s).

I really get cross about stupid ‘real world’ comments.
Anyway, the point is the OP (and others) is saying any and all teachers can have these massive salaries. They can’t, can they?

Not sure you're thought this one through @ATenShun.

Loads of stuff in the private sector also 'doesn't change' in this exact way. Restructuring one company for efficiency or cost saving is much like another - the same principles apply, it's just a different company in front of you, with different needs/data points etc. Same with teaching.

The difference is, as I said, that no-one in the private sector is leading 22 hours of presentations to diverse and demanding groups each week, with no colleagues supporting.

Anyone who's worked in both face-to-face/coalface and desk/meeting based roles knows that the former are infinitely more stressful than the latter. It's this stress-load we need to reduce. Reducing contact time in line with other Western countries is a no-brainer.

Nor what the UK is! apparently....

Would you be happy with your DC’s teacher arriving to school late after a relaxing lie-in or logging on from home?

I'm guessing the school has plans in place to cover classes while teachers have a lie in, so I have no problem with a well-rested teacher taking over later.

I'm surprised that they can leave at 4 with all the cleaning that he makes the teachers do. As they also have to serve the kids food at lunchtime as well they must do this after school.

I’m not a teacher. The holidays are unpaid (at least the summer holiday is). The hourly rate maybe matches that of some other professionals. But given that teachers typically work many more hours than they are contracted to AND they can’t increase their income by working more hours, it doesn’t make a difference, does it?

😂 😂
Schools can’t afford to pay those salaries! We have teachers who have been with us for 30+ years. They are excellent teachers. They can’t get that sort if money because the school CANNOT AFFORD IT! Our HT positions are below that!

I think the idea is that teachers get to do their PPA time at home rather then having to do it at school. This is actually a agood idea, often when teachers are at school trying to do their planning on non contact time a number of things happen.

They get interrupted by other members of staff,

They end up with misbehaving students in their rooms so they can be removed from a class,

They get pulled to do cover (which shouldn't happen but sometimes does if school is desperate).

They end up doing other duties that again they shouldn't really be doing but the school is short staffed so someone has to do it.

So if teachers could do this part of their work from home, rather then in school they would get interrupted or pulled to do other work. It would just make timetabling more interesting 🤔.

We do, in Scotland anyway.
It’s part of the McCrone Agreement.
“… a time and place of your own choosing.”
You just need to let your HT know whether you are in the building or not.

You do NOT need to ask permission.

Ridiculous. I will demand a lie in from my 7am starts.

LaughingPig

Not true. All classroom teachers nationally have the opportunity to earn up to an additional £16k for additional responsibility.

Only if there is a position for it in the school.

There is then the chance to earn over £76,000 outside London as a leading practitioner teacher.

I have only ever seen 1 lead practitioner and that was about 12 - 15 years ago.
As an additional responsibility they had to go to other schools to mentor and present CDP in whatever specialism they had.

Its not a position that is readily available anymore.

Theoretically every employee in McDonald's also has the opportunity to be promoted through the companies hierarchy. It's no more erroneous than you equating a teacher salary which does max out at 60k to a salary of 150k for the highest level one could get as a head. The huge majority of head teachers won't be anywhere near that salary.

Not every teacher has the opportunity.

Teachers are taxpayers too. They're not employed by you. If it means keeping experienced dedicated professionals in their incredibly valuable jobs, let's go for it. Happy teachers, happy pupils (and happy parents maybe?!).