Page 26 | Teachers given lie-ins and extra days off

LaughingPig · 2024-09-19T14:37:22+00:00

The Guardian is reporting today that state schools are offering perks in an attempt to attract and retain teachers. These include lie-ins, whereby teachers will start later one day a week, a day off each fortnight and even the chance to work from home. Clearly there is an issue with getting enough high-quality teachers into the profession and keeping them there. However, I’m not sure how these initiatives will go down with taxpayers on the back of successive teachers’ strikes, schools closing for months during lockdown and now inflation-busting pay rises. Would you be happy with your DC’s teacher arriving to school late after a relaxing lie-in or logging on from home? YABU- teachers deserve lie-ins YANBU- teachers should be in class teaching DC [[https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/sep/19/teachers-in-england-offered-incentives-to-make-job-appealing Link]]

Adm1010 · 19/09/2024 20:28

Seeing the update about your DH … You are full of shit and a GF . I do wonder what you get out of it . Sad

BigLeafyTree · 19/09/2024 20:28

Education is a whole massive mess right now for teachers and children alike. Giving teachers a “lie in” occasionally is a joke. The whole thing needs reforming for everyone’s sake.

Dunnoburt · 19/09/2024 20:29

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

I think it's a good retention idea...as long as educational standards are met.......yabu.....

thinkingndrinking · 19/09/2024 20:30

LuluBlakey1 · 19/09/2024 18:42

Try managing:
25-30 different teenagers through your classroom door every 50 minutes-of all abilities- for 27 lessons a week,
Plus two pre-school, Breaktime and after school duties every week (that's 6 in total -of 10-15 minutes each),
Plus teaching 5 x 20 minute PSHCE/Tutorial Periods,
Attending at least one after school meeting of 1 hour (2 is more common),
Attend CPD weekly,
Possibly doing a 1 hour lunchtime duty (even if you don't really want to- because someone capable has to do them),
Run extra GCSE/A level catch-up classes 2 x weekly before school at lunchtime or after school (which you are not paid for)
Prepare for and attend Parent Evenings for each year group
Write reports for each year group
Setting and marking tests and exams for each class
Planning every lesson to meet the needs of every child in it and ensure they each make required individual progress and meet 1/2 termly targets
Complete assessment data for every child
Manage behaviour in every lesson
Follow up behaviour issues
Take responsibility for Safeguarding of every chid you come into contact with
Take responsibility for the Health and Safety for every child in your classroom every lesson
Liaise with parents over all necessary issues
Complete required paperwork for everything- planning lessons, assessments, reporting incidents, letters to parents, school trips,
Be constantly alert in classrooms, on corridors, on duty, in the school playground, in the dining hall for signs of trouble and be prepared to intervene in violence, or dramas or even children who may have taken ill or taken an overdose/cut themselves had an accident
Be prepared to deal with children who tell you they have been hurt or assaulted physically or sexually - and compete all the required paperwork afterwards

All of this all the time

Then tell me teachers don't know about time-management.

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This is just a job description though. Everyone can break down their jobs into a list of differing detailed tasks. It's literally just the job. If it's too much of a bother don't do it.

By comparison, nurses don't seem to go into this massive amount of detail about every human interaction, bodily fluid, mental health crisis and long hours shift they work (for comparable money and far less holiday). Why is that do we think?

What is it about teachers/teaching that makes them different?

WallabyJob · 19/09/2024 20:31

YABU

Most of them are on about £5 an hour when you consider actual work done.

eg. £2200pm take home, Working 8-6 every day plus 5 hours at the weekend = 55hrs per week, £5 per hour

cardibach · 19/09/2024 20:31

thinkingndrinking · 19/09/2024 20:21

@miniaturepixieonacid are you moving to State? Or on balance not?

As for the TPS (teacher's pension scheme) that is quite the benefit. At least some of the teachers at my kids (private) school are still in it - contributions have just increased from something like 24-27/28%! (In my previous job employer contributions were 5%, I've been looking at other jobs and that can go up to 10% but rare beyond that and obviously not final salary - so there's no guarantee that the money to save in the scheme will be worth more at the end).

If anyone wants a window into why our taxes disappear, look no further than state-funded civil service pensions. Usually (for all state school teachers in the scheme) the tax payer picks up that massive % contribution for a guaranteed pay out (final salary scheme) - multiply that by everyone whose ever had a civil service pension (inc.teachers) and add in the ability to retire in your 50s but live decades longer and you'll see why we are struggling as a country to afford to pay for everything we need. (I'm unsure whether it's still the case but the conservatives used to display data on total tax spend on 'welfare' but were less forthcoming that that number included not only the state pension but also every civil service pension. Not sure whether it's still done this way (CBA to look if I'm honest.)

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Teachers’ pensions haven’t been final salary for years and years.

Bunnycat101 · 19/09/2024 20:33

Flexible working is the norm now in many sectors. I quite frankly couldn’t care less if a teacher was working part time or compressed hours as long as my child has stable provision from a well qualified teacher.

At our primary it now seems very rare to have a full time teacher. There are lots of job share arrangements that seem to work very well - either because teachers are part time or taking on leadership positions. But… you also see teachers taking on part time contracts who might not have done 10 years ago (ie not everyone at the school is doing it for childcare). One of the most amazing teachers there is reduced down to a 4 day week because she just didn’t want to work full time and good on her- people in general are more aware of the need for balance in their lives. Schools will need to adapt to the changing requirements of the workforce if they want to keep people and if they can’t move on pay, conditions and flexibility is the only things left.

LouH5 · 19/09/2024 20:34

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

If anyone thinks teachers aren’t “working their wage” then they aren’t looking hard enough.

And as for “it’s not really being a great look for hardworking parents to see the class
teachers heading off home during the school day,” in my school we’ve always been able to take PPA from home. Mine is on a Monday and I skip out the building at 12 every Monday and not one hard working parent could care less. Weirdly enough, they aren’t loitering on the street outside clocking what time we all leave.

Chipsintheair · 19/09/2024 20:34

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

Well, it could be extended to other areas of employment too, then. If people are envious, they could work together to create better work/life balance and conditions for everyone, rather than try to sabotage others' chances health and happiness.

Superhansrantowindsor · 19/09/2024 20:35

Nurses don’t go on about it because people don’t start threads about them saying they need to earn their wage.

Owl55 · 19/09/2024 20:35

I think most teachers would prefer a bottle of wine rather than a lie in!

Catoo · 19/09/2024 20:35

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 18:41

@Dandeliontea123

George Osborne was very clear that “it is unfair that people going out to work see the neighbour next door with the blinds down.”

That specific comment was about benefits claimants, but we don’t want the general public thinking similar of teachers with their blinds closed.

Stop obsessing with closed curtains FFS.
When I was a teacher I was in work at 7.30am. Rarely left before 5.30pm. Took about 2 hours work home 3 evenings a week and spent 5hours at weekends. Easily 60h weeks. Then 6x parents evening a year etc. The hours were off the charts.

Hardest job I ever did. I worked out my hourly rate - it was a joke.

Very few will use the late start to lie behind closed curtains OP. Teachers aren’t aliens. They have partners and children. Most will be up at the usual time. Maybe plan a lesson or make a resource.

How about you retrain as one. Come back on here and tell us how much shirking you manage to do.

wonderingwhatlifemeans · 19/09/2024 20:35

Ah I am sure I have read other posts by this person about how their husband was treating staff members and their expectations of them. If this is that person it didn't go well. If it is not that poster then there are two of them !!

Witchcraftandhokum · 19/09/2024 20:36

Your husband needs to stop loitering around school car-parks. There's a word for people who do that.

IntrovertInDisguise · 19/09/2024 20:37

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

It’s really not a good look for hardworking teachers to be leaving in droves. If you think teachers are lazy, go spend a day at a school and see what they put up with. Disrespectful students and parents, low wages and unpaid hours of work.

Fatbottomgardener · 19/09/2024 20:37

BehindTheSequinsandStilettos · 19/09/2024 20:27

Have you done timetabling? Absolutely not easy to do. In ours, we struggle to accommodate the part-time staff requests we have for the days they want - they get their p/t but preferred days requested cannot always be honoured.
Then add in the sharing of classes and forms and it becomes more inconsistent for the students. Multiply multiple requests across all staff and it's going to be bloody difficult to make it work.

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Yes I have. It is bloody hard and not everyone gets there requests. In our case the one of the first things to be timetabled was sports ad out grounds were a bus journey away.

We (timetabling team of 3) could not guarantee that if you were part-time that you would have the same day off each year if you were .8. Did our best. So if we offered two free periods a week they can’t all be P1 & P2 are Monday. We will spread the load across 5 days plus there will be periods 6&7 to play with.

Some secondaries already finish at 2.30 and they may consider it easier to finish at Friday lunch instead.

NavyCream · 19/09/2024 20:37

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 18:32

I think what needs to be remembered is that there is no magic money tree, so the government needs to find a way of making teaching more attractive that doesn’t involve huge pay rises.

I think there is definitely a role for AI to take on some of the more administrative tasks teachers do to reduce working hours. As I said, I would also look to increase exclusions to improve behaviour.

However, what we don’t want is for teachers to lose the public respect they have by coming across as shirkers. I am concerned that hard working people may not take kindly to seeing staff in bed on weekday mornings.

Now you're planning on peering through bedroom windows to see teachers in bed. Creepy.

Just4biscuitspls · 19/09/2024 20:37

MrsSunshine2b · 19/09/2024 19:42

Really? My DH and I are both former teachers and now Civil Servants and no-one I've worked with has ever said anything other than teaching is a very hard job. I think the main reason CS don't get bashed as much as teachers (although the Telegraph keeps up a relentless campaign of bashing both, they are obsessed) is because most people have no idea what we do or how we relate to their own lives. They don't hand our children over to them every morning and get annoyed because they had the nerve to tell Jaxsyn off even though he only drop-kicked two kids, who probably deserved it, across the classroom today, and seemed quite annoyed about Harleigh-Kwin graffiti-ing the girls' toilets instead of promoting her artistic talents. The hours worked by civil service also don't impact on how often they are forced to look after their own demonic spawn lovely children.

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It’s probably because you and your husband know exactly what teachers go through and are sympathetic to it!
I get the most amount of flack from them about the hours (9-3 apparently!) and the holidays (paid- would you believe it!) even though- they can also work term term but it’s different for them as their pay gets spilt over the year! There is no understanding that our pay does too! And that we don’t get paid holidays! Also a lot of flack for how hard could it actually be- it’s basically just sitting watching kids colour in and watching videos 😡

Princessfluffy · 19/09/2024 20:38

It's a good idea to improve working conditions for teachers and to address recruitment and retention in non financial ways as well as in financial ways.

Ditto for NHS staff. We all benefit from good public services. It's pretty obvious that the issues for nurses and teachers are not purely about pay.

SilkFloss · 19/09/2024 20:38

I don't think this thread has gone quite the way the OP intended.
Thank you (from a teacher) to the many, many posters who have written in defence of the profession.

I would just add:
Teachers were not responsible for the closure (to many) of schools during the Pandemic so that point is irrelevant.
The recent "inflation-busting" payrise you mention was the first of any note in nearly 14 years. Teachers' pay (along with other sectors) had dropped around 20% in real-terms since 2010. It was a very small step towards redressing the losses suffered.
Teachers too are hard-working taxpayers so you can get to fuck with that one.
"However, what we don’t want is for teachers to lose the public respect they have by coming across as shirkers." I think that's EXACTLY what you're gunning for, to be honest.
"I am concerned that hard working people may not take kindly to seeing staff in bed on weekday mornings." Just how do you think anyone is going to see me in bed in the morning? Drawn curtains mean nothing but of course, you know that perfectly well.

As others have suggested, this smacks of goady DF lazy "journalism."
We've written your article for you.

Findmethesmallestviolin · 19/09/2024 20:40

I have no kids and am in no way connected to education - AIBU to think OP is in no way
married to a teacher and is also a word that would get me banned

MultiplaLight · 19/09/2024 20:41

thinkingndrinking · 19/09/2024 20:30

This is just a job description though. Everyone can break down their jobs into a list of differing detailed tasks. It's literally just the job. If it's too much of a bother don't do it.

By comparison, nurses don't seem to go into this massive amount of detail about every human interaction, bodily fluid, mental health crisis and long hours shift they work (for comparable money and far less holiday). Why is that do we think?

What is it about teachers/teaching that makes them different?

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Nurses also don't get told how shit they are on a regular basis. Or told off for doing a 10-6 shift because someone might see their curtains closed. Or told they have 17.5 hours a week not with patients so what exactly are they doing in that time.

Maytag · 19/09/2024 20:41

‘Hardworking parents’ 😂what about parents who teach? We need to retain teachers, and attract the next generation into the profession. If other professions are more flexible and allow a work/life balance, why on earth would our young people choose a career where you are expected to work for free, whilst being criticised as lazy by ‘hard working parents’. Give over.

Lisbeth50 · 19/09/2024 20:41

I'm not sure about the lie-in but the day off a fortnight and working from home already exist.

Full-time teachers are entitled to half a day a week out of class for planning and preparation. Some schools have merged the weekly half day into a whole day once a fortnight. It's not a day off - you have to plan etc on that day.

Working from home is just doing planning and preparation at home rather than in the school building.

It's nothing new.

Lou16777 · 19/09/2024 20:41

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

Teachers don't stop at 3pm, they takes numerous books home to mark, plan lessons, complete data to name a few. Suggesting some think they need to earn their money baffles me and must be an opinion of people who don't understand the extra work Teachers do