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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Teachers given lie-ins and extra days off

1000 replies

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:37

The Guardian is reporting today that state schools are offering perks in an attempt to attract and retain teachers. These include lie-ins, whereby teachers will start later one day a week, a day off each fortnight and even the chance to work from home.

Clearly there is an issue with getting enough high-quality teachers into the profession and keeping them there. However, I’m not sure how these initiatives will go down with taxpayers on the back of successive teachers’ strikes, schools closing for months during lockdown and now inflation-busting pay rises.

Would you be happy with your DC’s teacher arriving to school late after a relaxing lie-in or logging on from home?

YABU- teachers deserve lie-ins
YANBU- teachers should be in class teaching DC

Link

Teachers in England offered lie-ins to make job more appealing

Other perks including nine-day fortnight and more planning time at home offered to attract recruits

https://www.theguardian.com/education/2024/sep/19/teachers-in-england-offered-incentives-to-make-job-appealing

OP posts:
MultiplaLight · 19/09/2024 20:42

Sounds like the car park is empty at your DHs place because they can't wait to get away from him. Least when they're marking and planning at home, they haven't got to put up with his Daily Mail bollocks in their ear.

phlebasconsidered · 19/09/2024 20:43

I haven't read the whole thread. But i've been teaching since 2000.

It's different now.

Today I was in at 7. Because I had a meeting with a student and her carer to sort out issues in my GCSE class and to enable her to do better. Then prepped everything myself for the day ahead. That's x 30 plus copies mostly, for each lesson, sometimes more for GCSE or A Level, as we can't afford to bulk buy textbooks. So I reduce and doubleside everything, 2 to a page. Various students need it on celery, cyan, sky blue, deep green and magenta paper. I do this myself.

Then off to form after meeting with my year 11s to establish times I can do before and/or after school sessions with them.

Thereafter, flat out till break. Then I stand in the year 11 loos clearing out vapers. I haven't had a wee yet.

Then it's lessons till lunch. At lunch, I have to chase up all the students who I logged as misbehaving in the morning. I have 20 minutes to eat, wee and sort out a crying form student. I promise to sort it out after school. I see another student, deal with a problem, log a concern and set in motion support. I don't have time for a wee. I eat a cereal bar.

All afternoon I teach. Then, theres a 10 minute wee break and during that I sort out my form student and ring home the students who have had negatives. I have to do this. I have a quick wee. Then I have meetings till 5pm. Some are useful, some are not.

I get home at 6. I catch up with the behaviour stuff I couldn't do at meetings. I email all the parents that emailed me. I plan tomorrow's preparation. I log concerns from today's meetings and I plan for tomorrow where SLT are "popping in" to make sure we are up to Academy standards.

I am judged on what my students get in a gcse. It doesn't matter that I have students still in reading support in year 11. Their target is still a 4. I cannot get them there. It is not possible. Not because I don't try my hardestwith every student- I do- but because an average is an average for a reason. And why can't we just celebrate a student getting a 2 if that IS a success for them?

My school won't let staff move to the upperpay scale without a fight. This means experienced staff just retire and leave. For the sake of a few thousand. To move to UPS you basically have to be part of SLT. There's no progression for experienced, fortitude, knowledge. Only for those forging a management path.

I would never, ever, expect a young person to do this job. In my very large Secondary academy, 30 have started as trainees this year. They've done a degree and they've been sold on the job training as a good thing. It is not. They get no theory, no PGCE. They are flung in as cheap labour. Some have already left.

It used to be a respected profession that required a higher degree. Now, a warm body to fill the places left by those leaving will do. Except there are not enough of them. And it makes me sad, because something happens every day to make me happy teaching. Something happens to make me laugh, and rejoice in young people, and potential.

But a lot more makes me unhappy and I feel the balance has tipped. If something, ANYTHING, can make people want to teach then that's a good thing. Speaking from a Secondary with 18 vacancies still to fill from May last year.

bigageap · 19/09/2024 20:43

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 20:21

@ThanksItHasPockets

DH is a headteacher but what he does or doesn’t do for a living has no relevance to this thread.

He does work ‘near’ a school car park- his office overlooks it.

If he’s as much of a dick as you are I feel for his colleagues & students.

Fatbottomgardener · 19/09/2024 20:43

thinkingndrinking · 19/09/2024 20:21

@miniaturepixieonacid are you moving to State? Or on balance not?

As for the TPS (teacher's pension scheme) that is quite the benefit. At least some of the teachers at my kids (private) school are still in it - contributions have just increased from something like 24-27/28%! (In my previous job employer contributions were 5%, I've been looking at other jobs and that can go up to 10% but rare beyond that and obviously not final salary - so there's no guarantee that the money to save in the scheme will be worth more at the end).

If anyone wants a window into why our taxes disappear, look no further than state-funded civil service pensions. Usually (for all state school teachers in the scheme) the tax payer picks up that massive % contribution for a guaranteed pay out (final salary scheme) - multiply that by everyone whose ever had a civil service pension (inc.teachers) and add in the ability to retire in your 50s but live decades longer and you'll see why we are struggling as a country to afford to pay for everything we need. (I'm unsure whether it's still the case but the conservatives used to display data on total tax spend on 'welfare' but were less forthcoming that that number included not only the state pension but also every civil service pension. Not sure whether it's still done this way (CBA to look if I'm honest.)

TPS has changed to a CARE scheme. All teachers in TPS moved to CARE in 2022.

Lots of indies have pulled out of TPS. Those still in it off a mixed option so some teachers are in a private scheme or they remain in TPS under a salary sacrifice system.

Bangwam1 · 19/09/2024 20:44

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 19:56

@Unitedthebest

£60.5k is the maximum for a classroom teacher in London. Heads can get up to £147,000.

60k in London, after 10+ years of experience is not good enough, not for a job that important/stressful. You need to pull your head out of your arse if you think that’s a big salary.

These are the people responsible for our future. And it’s not just teaching either. The sheer responsibility of keeping that many children safe cannot be understated.

For all the teachers, many of us see you.

NavyCream · 19/09/2024 20:45

OP's neighbours should get mirrored windows installed so when he goes creeping round peering in windows he'll only see his reflection.

Moonshiners · 19/09/2024 20:45

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 15:44

One point I do think needs to be considered is that parents and taxpayers want to see teachers ‘working for their wage’ so to speak, given these are funded through taxation.

It’s not really a great look for hardworking parents to see class teachers heading off home during the school day or walking past a teacher’s home to see the bedroom curtains closed on a weekday morning.

I couldn't give a monkeys what someone else is doing. There's no way I would or could be a teacher and want good ones to stay and be happy.. if this helps then great.

ATenShun · 19/09/2024 20:46

WallabyJob · 19/09/2024 20:31

YABU

Most of them are on about £5 an hour when you consider actual work done.

eg. £2200pm take home, Working 8-6 every day plus 5 hours at the weekend = 55hrs per week, £5 per hour

I hope to hell it isn't maths you teach. 😂

Oh and to everyone telling us about the long hours teachers spend in school. The only staff you will see between 7am and 8.15am or after 4pm is the head and the janitors/cleaners.

spanieleyes · 19/09/2024 20:47

Our teachers can already take PPA at home if they wish, quite frankly because we have very little room in school- one teacher was doing her PPA today in the staff room whilst a phonics group were having a session since there is nowhere else for them to go, the washing machine was whirring away, a TA was laminating word cards and a college tutor was having an assessment discussion with a student, hardly conducive to effective planning but the best they could manage! When they do work from home, they are more productive, tend to start earlier and finish later and definitely get more done! If they manage to have an Amazon delivery or the gas meter read at the same time, I can't see that is such an issue!

F1gT3a · 19/09/2024 20:47

Don’t mind teachers getting a lie in as long as it’s not TAS who are still on minimum wages being given yet more responsibility and work load.

JassyRadlett · 19/09/2024 20:47

Who the everlasting fuck has such an empty and boring life that they take any interest in the state of the neighbours' curtains at 8am?

I pay a lovely lot of tax and work hard for it. Some of that work is at home, some in the office, some elsewhere.

My kids have some absolutely amazing teachers along with some more mediocre ones. I'd be over the moon to know that the amazing ones - who let's face it are the ones with more options - were more likely to stay teaching because their working conditions were more in line with other sectors.

It seems like a no brainer to say - one day a week do your prep work at home rather than on site, do it in the morning so you can have a bit of a lie in, leisurely breakfast and then commute outside of rush hour. Little things like that can free up an hour or two for someone and can make a big difference with little to no impact on anyone else.

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 20:48

£60k is only the maximum for a classroom teacher. There is then opportunity to earn up to a further £16k for extra responsibilities. A leasing practitioner teacher can be on over £85k.

That is before you get to leadership roles which can offer £150k+

OP posts:
Pigriver · 19/09/2024 20:48

In my current school we've always been allowed to take our PPA (the half day a week planning time we all get,) from home. Our head urges us to go home, go to the gym, pick our kids up etc as she says "as long as the work is done I don't mind". This isn't the norm and lots of schools expect staff to stay until 5/6pm.
I'm not class based in the afternoon so I leave to pick up my kids twice a week then make up the time later. Luckily their school is 5 mins from mine. It's these little things that help ease the monumental amount of shite we deal with. I want to see my kids and still have a bit of energy left. Unsurprisingly I've been there for over 15 years and most staff have been there 10+ years.
"Lie ins" will be basically being allowed to do your PPA at home while the TA takes the register and takes the kids to assembly. It would be nice not to have to use breakfast club every day and be out of the house at 7am....

SilkFloss · 19/09/2024 20:48

@ATenShun Not in my school. I was delayed this morning and arrived at work at 7.35am. I got the last space in the car park.

JulianCasa · 19/09/2024 20:49

For context - I was at school for 11 hours today. Just an average Thursday.

No sign of any of these things reported for us at my school but I don’t know how anyone can object to more flexible working for teachers (or anyone for that matter). Why shouldn’t we all aim for this?

Strikes and lockdowns are irrelevant (the strikes help towards retaining good teachers btw - it is a shared goal we all have).

Papyrophile · 19/09/2024 20:49

NRTWT, but until teachers can eliminate the education refuseniks from the classroom, and the disruptors, no other students will have much chance of learning anything. Slow is fine, but bright and bored to sobs by the plodders is a recipe for any unruly unproductive class. Very mixed ability teaching is a hiding to failure, IMO.

TheTwirlyPoos · 19/09/2024 20:50

Oh goody. Another teaching bashing thread. Well I guess the Taylor Swift ones have died down so something needed to replace it.

Todaywasbetter · 19/09/2024 20:51

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 18:32

I think what needs to be remembered is that there is no magic money tree, so the government needs to find a way of making teaching more attractive that doesn’t involve huge pay rises.

I think there is definitely a role for AI to take on some of the more administrative tasks teachers do to reduce working hours. As I said, I would also look to increase exclusions to improve behaviour.

However, what we don’t want is for teachers to lose the public respect they have by coming across as shirkers. I am concerned that hard working people may not take kindly to seeing staff in bed on weekday mornings.

You’re very funny. Was yr ex a teacher?

SilkFloss · 19/09/2024 20:51

@thinkingndrinking "It's literally just the job. If it's too much of a bother don't do it."
Oh dear. Sadly, many many thousands of teachers have taken exactly that decision, to the detriment of YOUR children's education.

Well done, you!

liquoricetorpedoes · 19/09/2024 20:53

LaughingPig · 19/09/2024 20:48

£60k is only the maximum for a classroom teacher. There is then opportunity to earn up to a further £16k for extra responsibilities. A leasing practitioner teacher can be on over £85k.

That is before you get to leadership roles which can offer £150k+

I’d love to know where you are finding these salaries- I’m head of 2 subjects and a pastoral lead and I’m on nowhere near 60k! (That is at UPS 3 as well- and with over 25 years experience)

ATenShun · 19/09/2024 20:54

NewFriendlyLadybird · 19/09/2024 16:39

Ah yes. All those lovely long holidays which are actually unpaid and throughout which they are often working. Those holidays.

If you are trying to claim your long holidays are unpaid, then by the same thought process your hourly rate for when you are at work is massive.

spanieleyes · 19/09/2024 20:54

And I'm Head of School in a primary and don't earn £60,000!

LouH5 · 19/09/2024 20:54

MultiplaLight · 19/09/2024 20:42

Sounds like the car park is empty at your DHs place because they can't wait to get away from him. Least when they're marking and planning at home, they haven't got to put up with his Daily Mail bollocks in their ear.

I agree massively with this.
I bet he is a nightmare kind of boss who thinks his staff should all be in from 7am-6pm and still take work home. And if they don’t respond to emails on a Saturday afternoon, they are lazy waste of space staff members. It’s laughable
that OP thinks her husband being a head teacher is irrelevant to this thread. He will have fed her so much garbage about how teachers don’t work hard enough any more, but only because he is the kind of boss who wants them working to the bone to make his precious school look good.

Fatbottomgardener · 19/09/2024 20:54

60k is inner London and top of the pay scale at UPS 3 which these days is very rare. Pay is a lot lower elsewhere

Teachers given lie-ins and extra days off
AllProperTeaIsTheft · 19/09/2024 20:55

Jl2014 · 19/09/2024 19:23

Flabbergasted that anyone could think this is reasonable!!! Utterly ridiculous!

What is so unreasonable about teachers being able to do part of one morning a week at home when they have no lessons?

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