To find talk of salary crass?

[peachese]

Met up with women I went to university with over the weekend and we haven’t seen each other since covid/lockdown. One is in the same job and she was explaining what she’s doing and then said “and it pays really well” and her husband earns a “shit load”.

I had another friend who every time I saw her she was telling me about a bonus or pay rise. Then I changed jobs (previously poorly paid) and she asked “is the salary better” and I just said “yeah is it” and suddenly now she doesn’t ever talk about pay.

I went to Iceland once on a horse riding holiday.

I asked the host how many horses she had (large farm lots of horses).

She said that in Iceland one did not ask that question as it was the equivalent (in okden times) of asking how rich someone was.

She said then but you are a foreigner and you didn't know and answered.

There are plenty of countries where sharing your salary is perfectly polite. Britain currently isn't one of them.

It depends who you're discussing it with. I have a lot of friends in IT and it's important to discuss salary- I've spent a lot of my working life fighting for equal pay, and it's difficult to do that if you don't know what your peers sre paid and what the market pays.

I'm in favour of publishing salaries. Makes it much harder for employers to justify big differences.

I managed to substantially increase my wages after learning what friends were paid. I was earning half what they were earning. Now I'm on the same if not more than some. It's very useful to know what others are paid.

I don't mind talk of salary, money talk doesn't bother me at all. I'm a nurse so most people would know how much I earn anyway, agenda for change salaries are published for the world to see.

It’s really important for women to discuss salaries and finances.

Perhaps if they talked about it more there wouldn’t be so many who end on here unmarried with kids having trusted a man with their finances.

Not at all. Attitudes such as this are why woman were under paid for years. It should absolutely be normalised.

Boasting is another thing but if they are bragging about that they are probably boastful people in other areas of like two.

That's an opinion I don't agree with and doesn't make sense. If a Dr tells someone on NMW how much they're on, how does that enlighten them?

I don't like to make people uncomfortable and people often don't want others to know their wages, particularly if they're not paid very much. If it becomes normalised, it puts pressure on others. Someone on benefits may not want to tell someone on 200k.

@poppyzbrite4

Carry on contributing to gender pay gaps then.

Obviously it can be done sensitively bragging and boasting is unpleasant anyway. A frank discussion is not.
People aren't stupid its seen in lifestyles anyway people that have more money.

What I take from this thread is if you have a high salary, that will be bragging. If it's vaguely average or below, you should disclose it for the sake of gender equality/because some people are poor.

I'm genuinely intrigued to know how the conversations about salary between friends go - I've asked but nobody has replied. I can't imagine it would be anything but extremely awkward.

What would really help is managers and HR people who know what their staff are paid offering a similar level to new hires. They are contributing to salary inequality more than anyone.

I'm not personally responsible for the gender pay gap and there are ways of mitigating that, for example getting companies to release details of salaries so they can be compared.

I know people who are very wealthy and people obviously not so, I'd never want to embarrass them by asking about money.

I didn't personally accuse another poster of 'braying' about money @poppyzbrite4 but crack right on

I read your thread title and I was ready to agree.

But that sort of conversation amongst friends is absolutely fine in my opinion.

It's not like they leaned across the table and said "I suppose you're on the bones of your arse in your job?"

Something like that would be very crass.

Talking figures is crass but what your friend says is pretty vague ‘pays well’ could be anything. And ‘shit loads’ is completely objective. £100k for a brain surgeon isn’t much, 100k for an estate agent four days a week is shit loads.

I've never understood why discussing salary's are taboo.

I don't think you need to go into specifics or amounts, but among a group of friends why can't you share that you've moved up the pay ladder, or that you've gone for a new job and negotiated an increase? Let's celebrate the wins with our friends, nothing crass about that at all.

Another constructive contribution. Keep them coming.

Honestly, it’s like you’ve never had a normal conversation with people.
Some of the examples of conversations with my best friend
”My husband decided to change the jobs so he found this X position and it works a lot better than Y for childcare” “ That’s quite step down for him. Did he have to take a big pay hit” “Yes, he was previously earning A and it’s now B, but honestly, it makes everything else so much easier to manage that it’s worth it”
or
”Oh gosh, I just checked the flats next door and they are now selling for X. We are so lucky to have managed to snap ours when it cost Y. There is no way, I’d be able to afford it now on my salary”
or
”Just went to Tesco. Can you believe the price of gin has gone up to £15”
or
“I can’t believe my partner wants to spend X on a car. Mine only cost Y and it’s been so reliable” “I agree, it seems a bit much. Ours was about Z a few years ago. I am hoping to get at least another 5 years out of it”

It’s not hard, is it?

I have a colleague who was fishing to know what I'm paid and thought by telling me their pay, would get me to reveal mine, it didn't. Good job as I'm on £30k more.

That would have caused a few issues that I wouldn't want to be part of.

With my best friend of 10 years;

Oh I got offered that job!
Nice, hope you got offered a decent salary?
They offered 45, what do you reckon?
Similar to what I'm on but you've got a bit more X experience, try to push them up a bit maybe.
Will do, want another glass of wine?

It is hard for someone who was brought up not to discuss money as it's rude and makes other people uncomfortable. I have no idea what close family members earn because it's never been discussed and I'd never ask.

I don't ask other people their age, who they vote for, how much they weigh or their religion because those are personal to that person and they may not want me to know.

We were obviously brought up differently. I try to avoid making other people uncomfortable and would never ask them about money. To me, it's common courtesy.

Hiding how much we earn and making it "crass" is what allowed companies to get away with paying women so much less than men for years.

We need to open and honest about salary to protect ourselves.

But you also said that you would leave a party if anyone mentioned money so it just seems silly all round. As you say, others have been brought up differently and, in my family, we are quite happy to have political and religious debates. Nobody falls out over it even if we disagree and it all seems rather normal. If someone volunteers information about their salary or the cost of their house in the context of a conversation, I take it as contextual information not a brag or an attempt to make me feel uncomfortable. You make it sound as though people just randomly point the cost of items out but it’s not really how these conversations go in real life.

The only people who know what I earn are my adult DC and the payroll department! I prefer not to discuss finance with friends

I said I'd leave a party if someone did nothing but point out the cost of everything, I'd consider them very weird.

If I was at a party and people started discussing how much they earned, I would leave the conversation as it would make me very uncomfortable. I've never been in that situation though.

If someone asked me how much I earned, I would change the subject but again, that's never happened.

I have no idea who my mum votes for. No idea as she's never told me. I do have political discussions with my family but we don't tell each other who we vote for. We consider it private.

I don't understand why someone would tell me how much they earn. I would be a bit surprised and feel very uncomfortable.