Skinny shaming is so accepted

[chickenbhunalambbhunaprawnbhunamuchroomrice]

I know a lot of people will disagree with me on this, but skinny shaming is so wildly accepted and tolerated due to slim people being at an advantage due to their body size. As if it's acceptable, because they're slim. I've been body shamed my whole life for being slim. Right from when I was at junior school, to now at 30 years old.

I was relentlessly bullied at school and college. I am not an anomaly, I am a 5'5 size 6-8 female with a normal BMI. I don't need to be shamed about my body. The only people who have ever shamed or bullied me about my weight have been fat or obese people. And I'll be honest I'm trying my hardest not to judge them for their eating habits and size, but when it's a running theme I am starting to think that only fat people have a problem with slim people.

'Skinny privilege' shouldn't be an excuse to exempt bullying and shameful behaviour.
Stop trying to normalise skinny shaming just because it's the 'more desirable' image. It's not our fault that agenda has been pushed so much.

AIBU to think that skinny shaming is just as bad as fat shaming, and that slim people aren't to an advantage on this? I don't believe in the whole 'well at least you're skinny and being shamed.' Interested to know others thoughts.

And thick as mince not getting the point she’s doing exactly what OP is talking about

I have seen studies where one identical twin is lean and one is obese.

For example.

A unique study of 16 pairs of identical twins in which one twin is obese and the other lean has yielded some surprising results. In 8 of the pairs of twins, the obese twin was as 'metabolically healthy' as his or her lean co-twin, while in the other 8 pairs, the obese twin had a poorer blood fat profile, higher liver fat and increased insulin production and resistance, and higher blood pressure -- all hallmarks of unhealthy obesity that can lead to diabetes, heart problems and other complications.

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2013/10/131006204207.htm

Which is interesting because it shows what could be causing the difference.

That's really silly sweeping statement. Obviously a person's build is affected by their genes, hormones and regulatory systems. We aren't all a uniform height, we don't all have identical frames, our bodies are varied across a spectrum. Some people will tend towards a thinner body and some a fatter one, and that's for all sorts of reasons. The person's relationship with food is a major reason for whether they're fat or thin or in between, but someone's size is not entirely and solely dictated by their upbringing. There are obviously a lot of other factors there - and of course we see body shape and size passed down families and will observe one side of a family might tend towards the stockier and another side the willowy and that children resemble one more than the other.

If we're going to understand why more people are getting fatter, we can't reduce it down to one thing. We've got to acknowledge that it is quite complex. Being fat is not aspirational and most people don't want to be fat or to stay fat if they are. But weight loss is a huge, profitable industry that proves over and over again that it is actually extremely difficult in practice for people to lose weight and keep it off. If you bark 'eat less move more basic science' at these people, it doesn't achieve anything because no one's body is a perfect machine and everyone's lives involve a certain degree of unpredictability. We need to understand how different factors intersect - sleep, stress, coping mechanisms, habits, working conditions, learned behaviour, appetite, hormones, genetics, socioeconomic status, medical conditions - all kinds of things. Sure, the extent to which someone leans on food or not is really significant but if you dismiss everything else going on in their life and in their body then you won't actually be able to get anywhere in fixing the problem.

The reason that's all relevant to the thread is that when we over simplify a complicated situation, not only can we not reach a solution but it also makes it easy to cast blame. If you decide that the only reason a person is overweight is because they just don't have the discipline that a thin person has, you can put all the blame on the individual - and then we get shaming. Fat-shaming usually leads to more weight gain. I know some people think 'if they feel enough shame, they'll lose weight' but it doesn't work like that. You make it harder for people to go to the gym or take up running or any other public exercise because they don't want their body on display. You might push them to comfort eating or, conversely, towards intense restriction in the form of crash diets (which lots of fat people have done many times) that can end up triggering disordered binge eating, out of the body's physical reaction to intense restriction. And dieting long term causes weight gain - that is a proven fact. But fat people are always told to go on diets and do the thing that most likely will make them heavier in the end. If we stay in a shame and blame cycle, I don't know how we manage to break that pattern.

There's an ingrained double standard running through this thread saying - thin people haven't done anything wrong so they don't deserve to be shamed (true!) but fat people are to blame for their bodies and so shaming them is OK. There are some empty words being flung around about 'oh no, shaming isn't OK in any direction' but when those words are both preceded and followed by sentiments that express how fat people are lazy, greedy, undisciplined, bitter and cruel then it shows how meaningless those platitudes are.

If we could accept that there are all sorts of reasons that contribute to weight gain- some of them innate and physical, some of them emotional and learned, some of them to do with external social factors - then maybe we could start to understand that there won't be one simple solution, and then we might be able to work towards something that actually helps.

Only 1% of the population have the 'skinny gene' and that means someone who can eat what they want when they want, sugar, carbs, fat etc. With normal exercise of a day so just getting A to B walking not purposeful exercise. I watched a science documentary on this as they were trying to understand why these 'naturally' thin people are that way. People in the study were more likely to be men but they were only using a sample of people that didn't exercise purposely and didn't have prohibitive small appetites as that doesn't demonstrate anything other than the obvious which is eat not very much and you will be slim. It was definitely not about wholly environmental factors so I disagree with that notion having watched this documentary.

Well 99% of the population can as only 1% of the population are 'naturally' thin with the skinny gene. Of course of that one percent it is hard if not impossible.

I agree with this maybe it depends where you live i.e the regional average weight of the women in the area. If you can shop in London as I posted previously there's loads of choice for very thin women, my young teen DD goes to Brandy Melville and they are pretty small and only one size for everything so you can't go there if you are above a ten probably. The bottom stuff is too big for DD so I would think it would fit a woman who is modern day size 6.

If they both reacted differently to food, then that's appetite isn't it? Appetite is indeed partly genetic. Why wouldn't it be down to their genes? Other physical attributes are....hair colour, eye colour, height...

Apparently when people are separated from their biological family, even though they're in a different environment their body shape and weight tends to lean towards that of their biological family.

The problem is by looking at these issues, people get very annoyed because they like to attach morality and virtuousness to the issue of weight...

The problem is by looking at these issues, people get very annoyed because they like to attach morality and virtuousness to the issue of weight...

Controversial, but I'm slim and have a huge 'appetite' - as in capacity for food. My record was when I accidentally ordered two full racks of ribs that came with a bunch of sides. I misread what 'double up' meant and thought it meant doubling from a half rack to a full one. I ate it all, but I wasn't 'actively hungry' after the first maybe 10 mins, and honestly I'd dispute that most people would still be actively hungry after eating say, half of it. I didn't need to finish, I could have stopped, but it was a big group of people I didn't know that well (boyfriend's family) and I wasn't paying so I wasn't about to embarrass myself by over ordering and then leaving most of it.

A lot of the argument here seems to centre around the fact that 'hunger' 'full' and 'appetite' are all subjective and open to interpretation. My 'full' just means 'not hungry anymore'. Very obese people I know often define 'full' as 'literally can't eat another bite and probably need to undo the top button on my trousers'. When that (over)full feeling fades, they say they're 'peckish' and have a snack to top up the tank to get that full feeling again.

I've seen threads here where posters admit they never feel genuinely hungry, and acknowledge that this 'top up' 'keep you going until the next meal' snack mentality is the reason that they're overweight. Having a bigger appetite (capacity for food) does not in reality correlate with genuine hunger, and IME slimmer people stop eating not because they 'can't' fit any more food in, but because they've eaten what they needed to stop being hungry.

Yes but if this was the case then why do the weight loss injections which help to curb your appetite work. If these people were just genuinely greedy then the injections wouldn't work would they?

Like most people's 'controversial' takes @sparklfairy that's your personal experience and how you interpret the obese people you encounter. I can't say that I have seen lots of threads on here where people say they're constantly topping up - it's probably confirmation bias that maybe you notice those posts more and I notice other posts which contradict that more. Like you say, appetite and hunger and satiety are all subjective, but we do actually know that hormones eg grehlin and leptin regulate those sensations - and people's bodies produce varying amounts of those hormones and individuals respond differently. Becoming obese also affects the regulation of those hormones - it creates metabolic disruption. Studies have been done into the role and effect of those hormones.

So we can take your narrative - which is that fat people keep eating past the point where a thin person would feel full and explain that either by saying they have taught their bodies to enjoy being overly full and eating to excess. Or we can look at the studies into those hormones and say perhaps the obese person actually doesn't feel full at the point you do because their hormones are not delivering the same satiety message as yours.

One version props up the conviction that a fat person is greedy and unrestrained. The other says that everyone is actually eating to the same sensation of satiety dictated by their body's systems but one person is producing more of a particular hormone than the other and so reaches that point earlier in the meal. Maybe that person benefits from a weight loss drug that affects their hormonal balance (which is how those drugs work) and gives them an earlier satiety signal, or maybe there is another way that they can tackle the issue. The point is again - blame and shame. Hunger is a powerful impulse. It's a survival instinct. It's hard to fight against it. We can find tools to help fat people do this, by understanding how hunger works in the body and how the appetite and fullness hormones are operating in different bodies - or else we can just say 'well, thin people can do it, why can't you?' Which doesn't help at all.

Countries like Italy have only 12% obesity rates. Half the obesity rates in the U.K. a country which prides themselves is pizza and pasta dishes.

If the majority of them can maintain a healthy BMI, then why can't the United Kingdom? Even the 'overweight' category is still a minority at 34%. So most people in Italy aren't fat.

I wonder why the brits are so bad at maintaining a healthy weight, and why with the ones that do, get shamed. (Whether it be jealously or whatever else) - I went to Spain earlier in the year. Notably nearly all the Brit's had big stomachs whilst sunbathing, much more than other nationalities. Strange.

I still wouldn't dare pass comment to their faces though, I wouldnt be that person who thinks it's okay to verbally announce what I think of their weight, and what they should do about it. Hay ho ay.

Italy's obesity rates are rising @chickenbhunalambbhunaprawnbhunamuchroomrice . It's a rising trend pretty much everywhere. There are countries with far less obesity than others but it's still rising.

There are so many variables between countries - cultural, dietary, social, economic that again I don't think we can point to one single thing and say that's the reason Italians are thinner or Brits are fatter. It's so tempting to point to a single intuitive narrative - oh well, British people are just inherently lazier! Or Italians possess more moral fibre, or Japanese culture regards weight gain as more shameful or British people work longer hours and are more likely to rely on processed foods and so on. Some of these will be genuine contributors - social stigma is a powerful driving force on people's behaviour, does it mean we should try to emulate Japan's stance and could it possibly work here and what would the consequences be if we tried? Some of them are nonsense - no, British people are not just worse people than Italians! Why is there no country with zero obesity? Why are there countries with far higher rates than Britain? And most crucially, is obesity rising everywhere and is any country managing to reverse that trend in any significant way? As far as I know, obesity is rising everywhere - even in Japan, certainly in Italy - though at lower rates, and no one has figured out how to reverse that trend. Is it that people everywhere are getting greedier and lazier? I don't see anything to support the theory of a worldwide moral decline. So what else is going on?

I haven't RTWT but just wanted to sympathise with the OP as I have been in the same position.
People do talk about obese people being lazy/greedy etc. but it is not socially acceptable to say it directly to them. As a skinny person, people consider it socially acceptable to be rude to you about your size, maybe because they are jealous?

For many years my BMI was around 18/19. I did eat well. When I went through a stressful time and my weight went to BMI of 16/17, everyone asked me what was wrong. No-one seemed to consider that I might want to keep my issues private.

You keep saying you wouldn't pass comment....to be fair, most people don't pass comment on others bodies....but you do sound incredibly judgemental and sneering. Obesity is an incredibly complex issue... encompassing genetics, hormones, societal pressures, mental health conditions, types and volume of food, activity levels etc....Just a blanket judgement of people as being lazy and greedy is ridiculously simplistic

And on the international discussion, I do think it's extremely salient that in Britain and the US, the rise in obesity correlates with the boom in the dieting industry. People go on diets and get fatter, and we see the way those two things work in concert. The fatter you get, the more diets you try and the fatter you get. Then another bestselling diet book hits the shelves and ok, you'll try keto next. Or paleo or intermittent fasting or fuck it you'll go back to WeightWatchers. I think the more intense diet culture gets, the fatter people get and that could explain part of what's going on in the UK and the States. One aspect, not the whole story!

Maybe I didn't explain myself very well, because I largely agree with what you said. I think the weightloss injections are great, and I haven't said 'thin people can do it, why can't you'. I even alluded to the idea that some people seek out that overfull feeling (and even added, then deleted, the point that they find comfort in it, but that's speculative and based on my own observations so I got rid of it).

I've had periods in my life where my eating habits have got out of control. I realised that the more I ate, the more I wanted to. Often I just wanted to chew, rather than eat tbh. I was working nights, in a high-concentration environment, and weirdly the action of chewing gave me a mental break.

I've also dated quite a few obese men, and they all had one thing in common. You only had to mention food in passing talking about something else and they would instantly perk up and say 'oooh, fried chicken, shall we order some?' and I was like mate, you ate an hour ago. It wasn't hunger based, it was they were getting some pleasure or comfort from eating.

It's not about blame. When Michael Mosely died, a doctor friend of his was interviewed on the news, and she told a story about how he recommended intermittent fasting to her. They were working together while she was doing it and she complained she was hungry. He smiled and said, it's just ghrelin, and explained what it was and what it does - just a signal to your body that you haven't eaten in a while, but it does pass, and nothing bad will happen.

I also think that UPFs play a big part in the obesity crisis. Studies have shown they change your brain structure, similar to that of an addict. Which would explain the lower tolerance for hunger and food noise. The injections seem to override that, which is amazing - there's also evidence that they can help people with other addictions such as alcohol or even compulsive shopping. I do think they're the way forward for people to break that addictive cycle.

Totally hear you on the privacy thing! For some reason, slim people aren't entitled to privacy. We must always explain why we're thin, or explain that we simply don't inhale lettuce as an evening meal. That we enjoy food just as much as the next. Lost of justification, especially when slim people get accused of starving their unborn baby.
My mum is overweight, but her diet is atrocious and she drinks a lot. That's why she's overweight. She will say so herself and talk about it til' the cows come home. I am not like that and like you like being private. I don't like explaining to people about my eating habits, especially when they are normal and I am a normal, healthy weight.

To be honest the only people who haven't judged me or told me I'm skin and bones are medical professionals, thankfully! Going off on a tangent here a bit. But just wanted to say I completely agree.

Oh I get it @sparklfairy - I just like to be really careful as there are people very eager to ascribe blame.

I'd only take issue with the intermittent fasting thing and the statement that 'nothing bad will happen' and that's simply based on the contribution IF can have towards the development of eating disorders. A lot of people fall into a restriction-binge cycle over time and intermittent fasting is a huge accelerator of this in people who are vulnerable to it. It's easy for some people to get hooked on the euphoria of fasting and to find that somewhere down the line they are bingeing uncontrollably. It can have some very long-lasting and far-reaching effects on mental health and relationship with food. That's not to say IF can't be life changing and wonderful for some people, but it can be quite devastating in terms of its impact on others. Like everything, there's no one size fits all approach.

'You keep saying you wouldn't pass comment....to be fair, most people don't pass comment on others bodies....but you do sound incredibly judgemental and sneering. Obesity is an incredibly complex issue... encompassing genetics, hormones, societal pressures, mental health conditions, types and volume of food, activity levels etc....Just a blanket judgement of people as being lazy and greedy is ridiculously simplistic'

@Comedycook

What? What have I said that's sneery and judgmental? I've simply posted my experiences and observations around the topic. If you think I'm judgemental for posting about noticing fat brits abroad, where is your anger and outrage at people shaming and bullying us slimmer folk? Oh, I forgot, it's selected judgement and compassion.

I have been (lowest weight) 7stone 7lb and (heaviest weight) 9stone 10lb and had it all.
Just to add I am 5ft 2

When lowest weight (Circa 1989)
You need a good meal or two inside you, Girl (was young then too, early 20s)
You look emaciated, Trins.
Christ, you are boney lately.
One of the worst ones is coming up
You on the anorexia Diet?

When my highest weight (Circa 2010)

You have piled on the pounds
Who Ate all the Pies, Trins ?
You look bloated

Neither were acceptable

Right now I am 8stone on the dot and its started again. No idea why as I am a size 10 so not overly tiny (in my opinion)

To the Lady who was ridiculed when undergoing Chemo, I am so sorry you had to endure the comments you endured. Hope you are ok now.

"What is skinny shaming?", some of you ask. Please! As if you have never heard someone being bullied for being too skinny.

But fine:
" Oh my GAWD! You are so skinny that if it wasn't for your huge nose, you' d be invisible seen from the side".
" You are obviously anorectic/bullemic/neurotic or you wouldn't look like that" (Yes, claiming that someone has a mental issue is, in fact, bullying)
"Your looks may be in right now but no man will ever want you. They want REAL women"

Then of course there would always be those girls and women where I always knew when they were on a diet because then they acted like they wanted to kill me. Especially if I ate in front of them. I ate a lot. It was apparently surprising that I would then be avoiding those people whether they were on a diet or not.

Life is much more peaceful now that I am chubby.

As for people being rude about you, tell them to piss off but don't pretend that your self esteem and feelings have being entirely decimated. You're pissed off at the rudeness understandably but that's about it. Their comments haven't left you hating yourself

///

You have no idea how this feels to hear as a highly self conscious 21 year old from a room full of other women. It can very much leave you hating yourself

Of course... because it's bullying which is always awful.

But you know that being thin is seen as better than being fat. That's why they feel they can say it. It's like being bullied for being pretty or rich. It's nasty behaviour but you know the thing they are fixating on is seen as a positive trait.

The thing is though you are quite blunt even about your own Mother. If you're the person in the photos on this thread I'm really surprised people comment on you so much as you are slim but I wouldn't see how someone would comment on you being 'skin and bones'. Like I posted previously I think this varies from region to region as where I live, one of the healthiest places in the country, I only know one woman that is overweight and I know quite a few Mums of young children and school gate Mums and friends.

Having eating habits that mean you recognise when you are full and being slim as a result is not what the study of the Skinny gene documentary looked into. They looked at the very thin people who had no off switch but still remained very slim. It is not some great secret for the majority of us how to be slim, basically eat less so the kind of person who 'skinny Shames' you maybe are showing genuine concern if you drop BMI as for 99% of the population that means you are simply eating less or exercising way more than your calorie intake. There are major problems with anybody offering their unsolicited advice of course but some, particularly if they are close maybe genuinely concerned. Your argument that they shouldn't be seems to be based upon your observations of the average Brit being "fat" but even if that is the case it doesn't negate the concern for you as an individual.

I think Genes are relevant, anecdotally my Dad is tall and was very slim until about late 50s. He is adopted and his parents were medium sized and his brother who is their biological son rather than being adopted is much heavier and had to really watch what he ate throughout his life unlike my Dad. When my Dad found his biological Mum and separately his biological Dad, they were both tall and slim. My Dad said that his biological Mum was very tall for her generation as she was 5ft9 and born in 1914.

No one should be shamed for their appearance, at one point I was very skinny and the comments I received were horrible a shop assistant said god your awful skinny , a friends mother said same both in public settings a relative all but accused me of not eating . I had no choice in the weightloss, I had horrific morning sickness during pregnancy and struggled to regain weight post pregnancy so it looked like I was losing weight at a rapid rate but really gave birth and my body shape was changing . I was still a healthy bmi and was eating normally. People should keep their comments to themselves