Disagreement with in laws and moving forward

[shill4nuttn]

We went out to a restaurant to celebrate my young teen son's birthday. His cousin started sharing something on the phone just when the food came out. None of my kids own cell phones. We have a strict no phones at the table policy. I asked my son not to use the phone at the table. His older cousin said he was giving my son "permission" to use it and that I was being autocratic. I was so taken aback at this attack on me and so, I complained to his mom to rein him in. This kid has barely said two words to me all his life and he just orders me what I should do with my own son.
Now, my very vocal FIL joined in and basically told me to shut up and let everyone enjoy their meal, especially the birthday boy--who is my son. All the family present were relatives of my husband.
To clarify, I told the teen cousin he was free to do what he liked but my son was not allowed to use the phone at the table. Meanwhile. the rest of the meal was awkward and now, my husband and I have also fought over it because he didn't seem to think his father was overreacting and disrespectful to me. His FIL will not apologize. I am very hurt and angry.
Also, I am so shocked by the public nature of it being in a restaurant--it's making me think perhaps I am the bad guy here. I don't know how to move forward. Currently, I am in survival mode and have completely isolated from my immediate family.

But that is the problem, people weren't just saying yes or no. That is what the vote did which was why is was nothing like the responses.

People were just making ridiculous assumptions like they always do when they know absolutely nothing about the OP, her child, her husband or her inlaws.

That's not what I was seeing. I was seeing people commenting that they disagreed with OP and they felt it was OTT and a bit controlling. Surely they are within their rights to have that opinion.

I think you are totally in the right. Rude cousin and rude FIL. You are the boys mother no one else should think they have any right to over ride your decisions.

Am I the only one getting a sense of some sort of culturally based misogyny here. The young male child cousin obviously thinks he has the right to overrule the mother. Giving his "permission", when the mother said no, and speaking down to her to put her in her place, smacks of male dominance. The FIL is telling the mother to shut up. The husband is backing up the cousin and his father. The mother of the cousin appears to have said nothing. A MIL is not even mentioned.

OP has no support and has clearly indicated a huge backstory of similar circumstances. Wouldn't you be a bit overly sensitive if being dismissed and spoken to like garbage was frequent. I very much feel OP has had a lot of this kind of treatment because she actually sounds quite beaten down.

I could be way off here but I do get a very strong feeling of cultural disrespect for women being why OP is feeling the way she is.

No. To a point the same thought has occurred to me, both in terms of the misogyny and the obvious lack of any form of support.

As for 'culturally based', though, this could just as well be a white British culture as any other. We have just as much of an issue with overriding women, talking over women, behaving toward women as though they are disobedient children in need of a good telling-off, and males instilling their imagined authority over women, as many other cultures.

Don't kid yourself that we haven't. Just try playing patriarchy chicken for 10 minutes in the local high street or talking in a meeting.

But you have rules your child is expected to follow so you presumably feel that being controlling (sick to death of this over-used word) is absolutely fine when it suits you?

To a point the same thought has occurred to me, both in terms of the misogyny and the obvious lack of any form of support.

It’s interesting because I saw the reverse. I saw a woman shocked that in telling a teenager he couldn’t show his cousin his phone, she received a rebuttal.

I saw someone who thought it ok to boss a young person about but was appalled when that young person stood up for himself.

I agree with the OP about phones at the table (although with leniency for occasions like this at a celebration.)

I disagree OP had any right to tell off her nephew nor to appeal to his mother to be reined in. But I’m assuming a 16-18 year old young adult who’s not expecting to be talked to like a young child.

Ah OP you can get the best and the worst of people in a singular thread. Don't write mn off completely, it can be great when you feel you have noone else. Has saved my sanity (and also handed me my ass on a plate) several times in the last few years.

I hope you find a good support structure, a decent village can make all the difference.

Absolutely this.
Your nephew is very rude.
Your FIL ruder again.
Unsurprising your husband is no better.
I wouldn't bother doing dinner with them again.

DH has spoken to FIL. He is a bit afraid of his father. I can understand. FIL is an imposing personality.
FIL will think about an apology. Apparently, he had no idea what was really going on. He just wanted the discussions to end and for us to eat and I got picked on because his male grandkids can do no wrong. Yes, we often get the "that's just how things were done in the old days." And yes, he did tell me to shut up and many other things but we won't go into that now.
DH has apologized for not sticking up for me immediately but he is a very reasonable person and rightly says that his intervening at that moment would have led to even more drama. FIL is very stubborn.
I did not ruin anything for my son. His birthday was a few days earlier and we celebrated it at home with a lot of love, planning, and joy. He apologized to me later for putting me in that position and said he wanted to come and give me a hug but was embarrassed. I am very proud of him.
As for now, it will take time to heal. We are going to limit our contact with the ILs. They are usually reasonable people but make the occasional digs at me which I have always tried to ignore.
The "survival mode"...was a bit much for this post. But yeah, that was part of a backstory which I don't really want to get into.
I have just joined MN and I am still navigating things. This was my first post. I now get why the internet is such a cruel place. So many awful things written here that you wouldn't dare to say to my face.

My ds didn't have a phone when he was a teen (not so long ago) because I couldn't afford it; some people can't. And even if they can, what's so unreasonable about parents deciding they don't want their kids to have them? Some parents don't even have smartphones themselves; it's not mandatory.

I'm glad you're husband at least sees that his father was wrong and supports you. It's a shame he couldn't stand up to him there and then but I get it if as you said he's a little scared of his father and yes it could also lead to a blow out there.

You are right to limit contact with them going forward. There is no justification whatsoever to warrant him speaking to you like that and your nephew was very rude in my opinion as well.

Your son sounds like a lovely kid, keep doing what you're doing.

I'd definitely say to your face that claiming you need to "take the time to heal" is a ludicrous over dramatisation.

Just move on, no need to even think about it again.

This sounds like the typical boiling cauldron scenario, where you tolerate the snide little digs for year after year until one day the pressure builds up and you blow a gasket. It happens. Other people have done it too. Something clearly came to a head on that day, and it sounds as though this has been building for some time. The positive side is it's given you the 'permission' you needed to put yourself at more of a distance.

In the circumstances you outline here your DH's response in thinking before he acted was the right call. He clearly has the measure of your FiL, who sounds an overbearing, chauvinistic piece of work. You can now at least create some space from him so that everyone has the opportunity to decompress.

You did not deserve some of the strident responses you received on this thread.

Agree.
OP, decent adults do not tell each other to shut up.
Do not feel embarrassed to be absolutely appalled.
There is no need whatsoever to include such rude people in your family celebrations going forward.
We teach people how to treat us.
If there is no heartfelt apology, take it as the petfect opportunity to not see them again.
Let your husband see his awful father on his own.

After just returning from a family holiday with my DSis and her family I came to the conclusion that it’s best to never try to discipline other children. I am fairly ok with my kids being on their phones in places such as the car but my DSis seems to parent differently as her child loudly had to ask permission to get their phone out when we were travelling about. Same with them putting their headphones on. I’m ok with phone at tables sometimes as well. But I make the call depending on what kind of day we have had and the purpose of the meal. A quick McDs this evening and we all had phones out as our social batteries were flat and we were there to eat between activities. Once the food came the phones went away to be honest. Sometimes we play a card game. I always carry a pack of cards. At restaurants it can vary. If it’s a social family gathering then fine, phones away. But if the parents are all having their own conversation and not really including the kids then I’ve no issues. We came a cropper a few times with differing parenting on the holiday and I ended up doing a lot of biting my lip after a comment I had made about what my niece was saying was sniped at and I’m not to have a go at her. And equally when my DSis told my child off for wearing their headphones I told her it was my job to make that call and I was fine with it. By the way my kids are autistic - teens but no learning disabilities so most people wouldn’t know they are, but they do wear headphones to soften the noise around them and not to necessarily ignore people or listen to music. They are happy enough to engage in conversation but when they turn to their phones or to read a book I know they’ve had enough. At home it’s a straight up no for phones if we are sat at the table. We have family chats about the day. But some days we eat in front of the tv.

So I think whilst I can see your point about not having phones at the table for your children, it’s not your place to police others.

And for what it’s worth I took my DD and her group of friends for a birthday meal. They all had phones out. That’s how they socialise. They were showing each other silly memes and silly videos, taking photos, but were fully engaging with each other and not ignoring anyone. I think times have changed.

@shill4nuttn I agree with you.
We have no phones at the table too and I’d have said to my own kids to pop it away now.
Your DN sounds insufferable and tbh I think I’d have been seriously miffed at your DHs weak behaviour to his blatantly chauvinistic father.

But obviously I’d be in the minority too!

Best way forwards IMO, have a chat with your kids to explain your expectations of them (and why) whilst out so you don’t need to voice it. I personally wouldn’t apologise to FIL but would explain to both him and SIL that you have different family rules and where of course they can follow theirs, you have different ways with your own family and each should be respected.

We are also a no devices at the table at meal times family, in your shoes I would have breezily said something like ‘oh great, the foods here let’s get that phone away so we can enjoy our food’.
If my nephew had spoken like that to me I would have raised an eye brow, asked my child to hand the phone back to the owner and left it at that (although I would hope none of my nieces and nephews would be so rude)
If I had been ignored I would have let it go and then mentioned it to my children at home after the meal, it sounds like this is a small part of a bigger problem and you’re right to feel sad about the lack of respect shown to you. However it wasn’t really your place to pick up your nephews hideous attitude and by letting it go you could have avoided your Fil joining it.
Hope you feel a little better now your DH has had a word etc

I’m sorry but you overreacted. Badly.

You'll soon be learning the art of keeping go as your son grows. He's not your property and if you want to keep a good relationship you'll guide rather than demand. We learn this parenting stuff as we go along but it definitely comes with a big dose of humility as you've now learned.

YANBU, your nephew was rude to you and then your FIL was extremely rude, it is so rude to tell someone to shut up. You are the one that should get an apology from them.

Yes Im aghast at a lot of the comments as well. I too would be taken aback if Im talking to my son and some other kid is lecturing me. Instead of complaining to the mother I think its perfectly reasonable to just address the cousin directly “Im talking to George. It doesnt matter if you feel its ok for him to be on your phone, Im talking to him as his mother.” If he says anything else as a retort you can respond “you can discuss this with your parents” and turn your attention to George “George, you know the rules” You can only control your behavior you know, your in laws sound very opinionated and theres only so much you can control when being around them. May have to have a little meeting with the family before outings such as these to go over ground rules and expectations. Sorry you were disrespected at the party, but its good that your nuclear family is loving and works together and supports one another and that the birthday boy had a good time. Hopefully things can smooth over, its ok to have boundaries and its ok to give yourself space when you need it as well.

This, it seems for some and op, that because she's the elder she can be rude and abrasive to her nephew, but he's to be deferential?

letting go as he grows... Typo

Your kids don't have phones so who does the no phones policy actually apply to ? You sound insufferable tbh and I'd love to hear the other side of this !