To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

@inoticed. Ah I see. What happens if you work any overtime? * *

Every time I, or one of my children, went on a school residential trip the teaching staff took the same coach as the kids so they wouldn't incur travel expenses of their own. Is that not the case at your school? Are you expected to make your own way there?

I'm pretty sure the teachers at my school ate the same meals, and stayed in the same accommodation, as the kids so food and board was covered. Would you be expected to pay for your own breakfast, lunch and dinner with no reimbursement?

I've been on lots of multi-day business trips, often including many hours of travel. I never got time off in lieu for those trips. It was just part of the job. I didn't get a per-diem but I did get food and board costs reimbursed within strict and heavily enforced limits.

I think you have every right to refuse to go. But I think your attempts to claim that the lot of a teacher on a residential trip is somehow uniquely onerous is bit off the mark.

Perhaps you should have trained to be a family law solicitor then?
You seem to have asked a question with your preferred answer in your head, then gone off at anyone who disagrees with you. Do what you want, you don’t have to go. You would have known that this is an expectation when you began working in teaching so to get indignant about working extra hours probably won’t garner much sympathy.

@Iwasafool Yes, I was confused with the comment re taking clients on holidays? My husband is a SW a (mental health) and I've never heard of it?

The difference being that when those workers are asked to work unsocial hours they aren’t expected to take all their clients with them overnight, for several nights knowing that it is likely that at least a few of their clients will get homesick, will cry, will wet the bed, will refuse to eat the food provided, will have smuggled forbidden items in their suitcase, will lose things, or as one of mine did climb over a locked gate and run across a covered swimming pool before stopping ( momentarily) in the middle because the cover was beginning to sink ……..

I hope he's kinder than the horrors who I had to deal with. I made a formal complaint and guess who was tasked with investigating it? Yes it was the person I was complaining about.

I know workload comes into it, when we engaged a private SW it was sorted out very quickly.

It should be paid … or is the food & bed the pay? Or do those doing the resident avoid some other “extra” work. Or days off?

Yes we are.

Yes, other jobs involve an expectation of unpaid hours and travel. Yes, other jobs involve working with vulnerable people. But, unless you have worked in a school, I don’t think you can appreciate the intensity and weight of responsibility of looking after multiple children every day. I’m only speaking as support staff but as someone who has worked at nursery, primary and secondary level (and volunteered as a governor and PTA member for nearly a decade) and all ages come with their challenges. I will go above and beyond (and do so gladly) but there are times I have to say no for my own good reasons. OP’s circumstances do not permit her going on the residential and SLT should understand that. You cannot rely on goodwill. A residential is not a required part of the curriculum. My own DC’s old school now offer several adventurous day trips instead.

Schools are experiencing a recruitment crisis. Perhaps those who are criticising the OP should come and give it a go!

@Iwasafool He's amazing and I'm very proud. I wish he earned more so I could give up work, however!! 😆
He loves working in a team with nearly all women; they keep him on the straight and narrow!

I have worked hours and had expectations outside my paid role in work. It was just part of it. Some jobs are like that and teaching is well known for being one of them.

Aren't teachers salaried? Salary covers the whole role, including out of hours things like residentials, school plays, etc. The only leeway I'd expect is that you are part-time, so that might expect how much attendance is expected.

My DH travels for work a few times a year, always has. He gets no extra for it, no time in lieu, he's salaried. It's just part of it.

The risk you take by not going is that you won't be seen as a team player and this could affect your employment prospects. I think you could get away with some sort of compromise arrangement though. Once my work had a residential for a week. I was a part-time employee and I didn't actually want to go. My compromise solution was to go for a few days of the week and go home afterwards. It was over and above my paid hours, and I wan't even salaried.

Yes there are lots of jobs where it is expected to work more without any additional pay, and sometimes this is traded off by a good salary in the first place. I'm thinking the very senior management roles in particularly as they are usually fairly compensated for that expectation and in those cases I think its expected and accepted by the individual doing that job that sometimes they will have to go that extra mile. However, when it comes to teachers, and pretty much every other job on your list, they are absolutely not fairly compensated in the same way - it's not a race to the bottom, just because other jobs are similarly not fairly compensated doesn't meant that the OP should just suck it up and work the extra hours.

YANBU, OP.

@Corridorchaos Absolutely this. I think unless you have worked in a school you can never quite appreciate how it is.

@PuppiesLove May I ask (roughly) your husband's salary?

What so (genuine question) are you expected to pay for your own travel to the residential and pay for your own food when you get there? Because that’s what my travel expenses and living allowance cover (and the living allowance is about £15 a day for all food and drink so hardly a fortune and I often have to subsidise it). When I’ve been on school trips I think teachers and parent volunteers have always had their travel/ entry paid for- is this not the case with residentials?

Otherwise, I think I’d prefer my kids’ school class to some of the clients I have, and by socialising what I actually mean is marketing (selling yourself and the company). So I agree not comparable- I think my example is worse in this respect!

But honestly this idea that only teachers are expected to work unpaid overtime or work away from home without extra pay is completely wrong.

@Heronwatcher As I would be taking myself there should I offer the two days then yes, I would pay my own travel.
Have you ever been on a school residential?

Why his and not mine? He started at the bottom rung, like everyone else and the requirements were probably more intense down that end.

I was on a low wage as I did my job for the satisfaction of the difference it made in the world, yet I still had to do quite a bit outside what I was paid for. As I said, you might be able to find a work around like I mentioned I did for residentials.

@iNoticed

Plenty (most?) professional jobs expect you to work above your contracted hours, my contract even says I’m expected to do so when required by the business.

A teacher's contract also states that, in addition to the directed 1265 hours a teacher is required to work, they should work reasonable additional hours to carry out their duties.

I guess it all boils down to a person's interpretation of "reasonable". I was a full time Yr. 6 teacher and SENCO of a school with 400+ pupils (not all with additional needs I must add). I loved my actual teaching role but found the extra workload and ridiculous expectations too much. There was no work/life balance to speak of. It wasn't an "occasional" bout of extended work hours nor was it a "bit of extra work" (as some PP have mentioned). It was relentless!
I took early retirement as I could not sustain that level of work.

It's a crappy thing to do and you know it is. Don't be a teacher if you can't commit properly.

@PuppiesLove Didn't you refer to him having to travel a few times a year and mentioned re salary? Apologies if I've got that wrong.

Really odd thread!

OP comes to ask if she’s being U - posters point out it depends on her contract and if expectations made clear before starting. OP says “I know it’s not and it can’t be, plus I know I’m not U”. Why start a thread?

Attitudes such as those of @LongLiveTheLego part explain our dire teacher recruitment and retention crisis!!
How DARE I consider my family before my job!!!

Yes, but I don't see why that is relevant. The point is that teaching is a salaried profession with a salary that also covers things like school plays in the evening, after school sports coaching, a residential a year, etc.

I was paid by the hour and still had to do unpaid hours. Some jobs require it. This might be a good time for you to consider if teaching is for you.

Otherwise I suggest you do like I did, unless it's five hours away, and consider whether you can go there 9-3 and go home to your family in between. As a part-time employee, it's reasonable to expect part-time attendance at a residential.

To inflame…

Militant??
You work for free then I assume?