To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

But equally, if you have never worked in some other professional settings, you may not appreciate how things might be for others either.

We know that teachers are expected to do a lot of unpaid overtime. We know that teachers are expected to carry a lot of extra responsibility during their unpaid overtime. I don't think any of us are suggesting that that's fair. We are simply saying that it isn't unique to teaching.

It's far from their first similar thread...

@Garnet6 I have so much respect for SENCOs. What they do is phenomenal and the workload unrelenting. I absolutely don't blame you for taking early retirement.

I always took jobs that worked with my family. Even if it wasn't the highest paying or preferred job. If I accept a job, I accept the requirements that go with it. If the requirements don't suit or work for me or the family, I don't take it and take one that does.

I don’t think you are being unreasonable. If you had a set up where you could easily cover child care for your 4 year old, they wouldn’t have a problem with you being away, and you didn’t have work commitments outside of this job it would be one thing, but that isn’t the situation here.

I have to say, though, that I really, really value residential trips and I still have many amazing memories from trips away. Admittedly they were ones run by the local authority rather than my school but the teachers involved went above and beyond and we got so, so much out of them. I am so grateful to the teachers who organised and ran these things, even more so having since been responsible for children on over night stays myself and having become a parent. I still talk about things that happened on those trips from time to time and people are still amazed, in a good way, at how cool the opportunities were.

It was a different time back when I went on trips though. Staff did drink, we drank, staff invited us to their house for an after trip party, there was far less box ticking and the responsibility placed on teachers was more reasonable - they were not expected to be super human. If things went wrong they went wrong, it wasn’t necessarily someone’s fault. None of the above would happen now. In some respects this has improved things but it has also taken away the human aspect. It is now a job which is done as per a contract and not a vocation. I think the staff that were asked to go on some of the trips I went on were genuinely as thrilled to be asked as we kids were to be picked for them.

Ideally you’d look forward to residential trips, albeit in a type 2 fun/ it’s going to be bloody hard work but very rewarding sort of way, but if it’s not your thing, and logistically it would be problematic, I don’t see why you shouldn’t say no.

My child moved school before getting to the right age for residential trips. The new school don’t do residential trips. I am gutted for him, but happy for the staff that they don’t have to take on that responsibility and have clearly defined work hours.

@PuppiesLove You.come from a very privileged position financially then. Not all of us have that choice.

I wouldn't go OP.

If they're not paying staff then they shouldn't be going on a week-long residential. A weekend would be more reasonable.

When I worked as a TA I went on a 3 day residential, we had a great time, but I was paid for 8am-8pm.

I would not have done it for a week, and especially not if there was no enhanced pay rate.

Just because you are in a caring profession doesn't mean you have to give more than you are able to. You have a child and a poorly husband - they come first.

I worked at a college for disabled adults and we had trips too. We did not expect staff with small children to go. We used to get lots of volunteers who wanted to go. Just don't volunteer. If they're running short and ask you, just explain you have a small child and other commitments. They won't mind at all.

Apart from the part time aspect when I organised a residential for a school year of 12-13 year olds all staff came on a voluntary basis.

My family will always come first, even if I have to tighten my belt to take the job that meets everyone's needs best. If I have to or choose to take a job with suboptimal requirements, then I accept that some of the things I have to do I'd rather not or will cause inconvenience.

Of course you should consider your family before taking a job. I literally said "do not be a teacher if you can't commit", by that I meant don't take the job in the first place. You made a decision to be a teacher knowing what the typical teacher role entails.

If only people with no family commitments became teachers, we would have even more of a crisis than we do now.

Where are all these single, free and easy people meant to come from?

Don't be ridiculous.

I think I was unlucky, the area where my relative lived had their social services in the equivalent of schools being in special measures, can't remember what it was called. Quite a wealthy area where they were very proud of their low council tax which was achieved by not spending enough on things like social services.

We eventually engaged a private social worker who was a bit like the equivalent of Mary Poppins and totally saved my sanity.

I've known plenty of teachers with families who do it and go on the residentials, etc. They made arrangements with friends and family to care for their kids. I didn't have that kind of support, so couldn't have done it. I was originally training to be a teacher but went another way.

I hope you realise that the family law solicitor doesn’t get paid for every minute she works though, regardless of what she is billing. Depending on her seniority, she would probably work anything between a 40-60 hour week but still only get paid for 35 hour week.

Most professions work way above contracted hours, especially in the early years of a career. The more senior you get the hours probably reduce but the expectation to be available 24/7 increases. I genuinely can’t remember the last holiday I had where I didn’t have my laptop with me and take at least a few calls.

If it's voluntary then yanbu. Just don't volunteer.
If you are salaried per annum not per hour, and the contract includes trips, then as long as it's not taking you under minimum wage, yabu.

I’ve been on a couple of school trips, and teachers and parents have their travel and entry to the attraction paid for (I don’t think that they normally have parents on a residential).

So if you went “with the school” you’d get a place on the coach for free and all your food drink accommodation paid for, is that right? Because that’s what my travel expenses and living allowance pay for (in theory). Just wanted to check you understand that I’m not making.a profit here. Plus, as I said, I do this 15-20 times a year, not once.

I’m regarded as reliable and good at my (sometimes extremely time pressured) job and it puts me in a good position for promotion?

If you’re asking do I get time off in lieu, I don’t.

We’re allowed to finish at 3 on a Friday if we’ve completed our contracted hours by then, but I have completed my hours by then every working week this year and have managed to finish early once (in 9 months) - as we can’t leave early unless all the deadlines are met, which they never are, as I have a time pressured job.

@iNoticed What I meant was do you get paid for extra hours? Say you worked a Sunday afternoon?

No, I get paid my fixed salary and that’s it.

@iNoticed Ah I see, thanks. How many hours extra would you say you do?

When did residentials become a "fundamental part of the job"?

They never have been, they are (as they should be) a nice to have extra.

Obviously YMMV but residentials have always been part of teaching, as have things like school plays in the evening, parent conferences in the evening, sports on Saturday mornings or after school coaching, prize giving night, among others. No-one is expected to do all these things but definitely some.

At the end of the day you have made your feelings abundantly clear.
Anyone who says any different seems to make you very defensive - almost aggressively so.

You don't want to do it so don't.

This thread makes me so appreciative of my daughters amazing school, where children are consistently put first and teachers and teaching assistants go above and beyond to support them.
Some staff had reasons why they couldn't attend residentials, but they did extra in other ways, such as PTA events, school discos etc.
Schools cannot and should not make it compulsory for staff to go on them though, as then you often end up with the grumpy staff, who are not emotionally engaged with the children. School staff are not lawyers, or accountants, it's a vocation. Of course they need a certain academic ability but what seperates a very average teacher from an excellent one is their ability to fully engage, to see beyond what's on a child's test or essay, to the whole child, and you really get to see that when you go away with them. I am constantly astounded at the child who seemed so timid, who then is the first up the climbing wall. The child who you thought had it all sorted, but is actually hiding a huge fear. Children have disclosed safeguarding concerns in a way they never would in a classroom. They are absolutely essential!

So OP please don't go, hopefully someone who is fully engaged will go instead, and give the children a much more positive experience