To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

You're not obliged to go & have the right to exercise that, but this is not a wild & outlandish expectation, exclusive to teaching.

@Helpfullright How are you equating travel with a full weeks' residential in which you are responsible for 60 children?
In addition, I only work p/t.

@JaxiiTaxii Do you mean it is, or isn't, exclusive to teaching?

You clearly don’t want to see that other roles have different responsibilities and expectations and actually people do work outside hours, at senior level roles in lots of organisation your contract is “for the needs of the business”

I will leave you to your only teachers work outside working hours narrative!

@AlisonChains Taking 60 young kids on a residential for a week and remaining in loco parentis for all of that time is " not really work"?!!!
You definitely ARE pulling my chain now 😆

I've been catering primary residentials for almost ten years. They don't get shitfaced but the teachers in charge definitely have a few glasses of wine in the evenings. And so what, after looking after all those kids all day and into the early evening I really don't blame them.

Nobody has said that.
Out of interest though - which other jobs require 24 hour duty for 2-5 days, maybe over a weekend, with no extra pay/time in lieu?

You don't want to do it, you don't have to do it, so don't do it.

If you want to soften it for your school say you'd love to go but have huge commitments outside school. Never say what these commitments are as they are likely to bang one about the same commitment others have.

Apart from this being unpaid 24/7 work and your having a young child, there are other factors to be considered.
Setting cover for all the lessons you will miss while taking 24/7 unpaid care of the pupils on the residential.
When you get back, marking all the work you set while taking 24/7 care of the pupils on the residential.

Ignore those posters saying you get Brownie points for doing unpaid work. All management hear is the word "Yes" and you're a ticked box.

@Dartmoorcheffy The schools I have worked at in the past when I have been on residentials have had a "no alcohol" policy for staff which I respect and support. I can see why; if there was to an emergency to occur etc...

And you are on duty for the whole of these days, working and responsible for the well-being of others, are you?
Ive been in a job that sent me to conference, and I’ve been a teacher on residential. They aren’t the same. Not even nearly.

Whenever I worked at other offices in the Civil Service, I was able to book time from leaving home to when I arrived home at the end of the day. So I got all my travelling time included as work time & if I was out of the house more than 9 hours, I got expenses as well as my fares paid. That was why I was always first in the queue if any other office needed relief staff, in a month I could rack up enough flexi time to be able to have a week off on flexi & still have some credit left over & racked up an extra week's wages in expenses.

@AlisonChains Which teachers do you know that don't work many extra hours every week?* *It's not just one!
Take this week, for example. Quick calculation: 15 paid hours. At least double that worked.
I love my job with a passion, but this isn't at all.easy. I have a poorly husband at home and children of my own.
I accept, however, it is an expectation of teachers.
I can appreciate why there is a teaching recruitment and retention crisis.

So do these ones, but as the head of catering i see the contents of the fridge that is alocated to the teachers.. 😃

@Nat6999 Wowser! Where do I sign?! Sounds fab.

Op do you want to go on it?
Will it affect your career prospects?

Do you have alternative care for your child?
How do you think your LO will cope without you?

Is going for part of the week an option?

Lots of questions only you can answer.
If you think it will make a difference to your career I think I'd try to at least go for part of the week as per your contracted days.

@Needanew Thank you - some things worth thinking about. Yes, I guess going for part of the week might be something I could offer. I think 5 nights is a long time to be away from my 4 yo; the most I've been away from her is one overnight when I was having emergency surgery. She was fine but it's a big leap from 1 to 5 nights.

I was a secondary teacher for over 30 years and still work in education admin.
As a young teacher, I did my bit. Hated it as it was beyond my comfort zone but I felt obliged to show willing. While there was an expectation that sufficient teachers (to meet the legally-required adult/student ratio) would attend overnight trips, we could never be compelled to. (Other adults, such as parents, who volunteered to attend were sometimes included, providing they met the requisite police checks, but they were not counted as part of the ratio.)
As I got older, I withdrew my goodwill towards this aspect of school life. Obviously, I had to fully participate in trips relevant to my teaching, e.g. science-related. I happily participated in arts-related extra-curricular activities, but steered clear of activities that would entail trips away, such as week-long sports tournaments. Even when Year 9P had their weeklong jolly (residential) at the start or the end of the school year, I was unavailable. 9P would have six or seven teachers and it didn’t take all of us, as well as other volunteers who really wanted to be there, to make their trip a success.
This was my prerogative. I had my personal reasons for not agreeing to trips away from home with students. I did not have child-rearing responsibilities, I did not have health issues … What I did have was the right to decide how my personal time was used. I sometimes felt moral pressure to “do my bit”; it didn’t work. I never had to use my union voice, but I damn well would have said, ‘prove to me I HAVE to go on school camp’ ~ no such thing as a ‘contract’, just a job description. By this stage of course, school management or the camp organiser would know that it would be unwise to take an unwilling teacher with them.
The situation is a bit different for an EOTC teacher or one who knows they are taking a job where trips away from home are an integral part of the job. I wasn’t that teacher. And my absence from such activities did not impact on the quality of my work. If there was a student who thought less of me because I didn’t sit around a fire with them, or go on a flying fox with them, or be in the minibus with them on the 9P camp, I don’t care.
What many people forget is that teaching is a job. Not a vocation. We are workers, with all of the responsibilities and rights of other workers, during our working hours (which of course extend into the evening and weekend anyway).
To those (parents) saying, ‘what would happen if every teacher had that attitude?’ … Maybe it would be the end of unnecessary but nice-to-have school camps. Maybe parents would need to give their kids the same sort of experience in their time.

@SueBlueNZ You put it all so brilliantly.

I am not a teacher so cannot speak from that perspective. However, I would absolutely not go away for a week and leave my young child at home to supervise a bunch of primary school kids on a residential!

It is work when you are away with children in the context of a school trip - totally stupid to suggest otherwise. Please prioritise your child. I am and was, always immensely grateful to those teachers who accompanied children (including mine) on residential trips. But I am aware that those trips can be absolute hell for them. No way would I expect any teacher to prioritise my child over their's. And nobody on this thread would put a classful of primary kids over their four year old either, despite what they say.

'Do as I say' not 'Do as I do' is the prevailing mindset of parents of children, irrespective of the impression that is given here. Pay no attention to to it. Do what works for you.

I agree it's a huge leap from 1 night to 4 or 5, esp with a 4yo.
But I do think I'd see if you could get away a couple of nights. I'm assuming it's a Monday-Friday trip so 4 nights really. If you did Monday & Tuesday night could someone else cover Wednesday & Thursday, or vice versa?

One can always rely on mumsnet for a lesson in the perverse!! Militant to prioritise your four year old child... 😂😂

Social care. Adult day centres. Staff take groups of adults with learning disabilities on holidays. Very equivalent responsibilities I would say. They get no extra pay and are not paid as much as teachers in the first place.

I worked as a teacher in a primary school for many years and went on many residentials during that time. They are exhausting! You are absolutely NOT being unreasonable to prioritise your own needs and family. Teachers are allowed to have a life that does not revolve around school and they definitely have every right to choose what they want to do outside of their contracted work hours.
How many other professions would expect employees to work 24 hours a day (which is what you are working on residentials) yet just pay them for their contracted work hours?

This is in teaching contract. Think of all hours unpaid you plan and mark..

Overnights are unreasonable if you have a little one though.