To not go on the residential?

[Youthiswastedontheyoung]

I've just started a new p/t teaching role. Towards the end of the academic year the whole year group go on a residential which is about 3.5 hours away, for a full school week.
I have a just-turned 4 yo and other academic commitments outside of school.
AIBU to say I can't attend the residential?
As an aside, my mum (love her) thought teachers got paid for any additional hours regarding this. She was surprised to learn I'd just be getting my standard pay!

@Namenamchange

getintoteaching.education.gov.uk/life-as-a-teacher/pay-and-benefits/teacher-pay

Lots of parents would be supporting you. You only have to look at threads that come up year after year on here of parents stressed about the pressure to send their children on these trips when the child doesn't want to go or the parents can't afford it.

Are you being sarcastic?

I have voted YABU because this thread is not about the question that you claim to be asking. It’s a very thinly veiled attempt to demonstrate how taken for granted teachers are.

Of course teachers have a very specific set of expectations and demands on them, and the vast majority of people know that residentials are done for no extra money and they appreciate that. Had the question have been ‘am I unreasonable to feel taken for granted?’ I’d have voted YANBU.

I don’t think teaching is for you. You’re in for a world of indignation and complaining if you think like this. I’m not saying it’s right, but it’s how it is. My parent was a teacher and it was truly vocational. Those kids came first and couldn’t have had more commitment.

Re the extra hours, many management (and other!) roles in business life require heaps of unpaid overtime with 28 days holiday a year and a basic pension. I did this myself for far too long, glad to have walked away.

You need to decide if the pros outweigh the cons for you.

You aren’t expected to go are you? If you talk to your school I’m sure they will be understanding.

Why are you so intent on demonising parents for this, OP? They aren't responsible for the terms of teaching contracts, and they have no reason to know what you are and are not paid for.

This comes down to whether you were made aware of this when you interviewed for the role, and did you make them aware of your caring responsibilities when you were assigned your year group.

Is it that you don't want to leave your 4 year old or you can't- such as you are a single parent, or child's Dad works away?

Residentials are hugely beneficial for children, especially in our current society when their independence is limited by anxious parents and social media influences. Our school is introducing them at year 2 and year 4 as well as year 6 which is amazing, and testament to a very dedicated teaching group.

I do residentials with girl guiding, so not paid for any of the hours, and it really is a fantastic experience to see them grow and thrive. Yes they are exhausting, yes you have to deal with anxious parents and homesickness, but the sheer joy on their faces when they move out if their comfort zone and acheive something they never thought they could, is priceless.

No, the parents probably don't appreciate the work of teachers, volunteers as much as they probably should. But I'm not there for thank you's from the parents, I'm there for the children. In this world there will always be those who step up for our young people and those who expect someone else to, so ultimately its up to you to decide which of those groups you fall into.

Might be radical but what I wanted for my children was teachers who were you know good at teaching. If you want to send your kids on residentials there are lots of ways you can do that, PGL, scouts/guides and similar organisations.

I was great at taking cubs on camps, I'd be a rubbish teacher.

Well our trip was 3.5 hours away because we live in London but the borough owns a place in Wales that generations of kids have been going to. Parents remember going when they were young. It's in the mountains. I think that's nice. You can't please everyone.

@Purpleturtle45 it really isn't. Do you think that teachers should just be glorified babysitters or do you think they should pass on knowledge, including correct usage?

There was a thread yesterday where someone said that their child was being taught 'would of' instead of 'would have'.

Sounding ignorant doesn't help anyone.

No teachers aren't paid for most of their holidays.

Try going on a school residential and see what the evenings consist of. Believe me it's not boozing and socialising.
On every residential I've attended there's been constant monitoring, trying to get children to be quiet so others can sleep, sorting out arguments and having to wait until the last child is asleep before being able to go to bed - usually well after midnight!

DH is a headteacher and I know he would take a dim view of any teacher refusing to attend a class residential.

Realistically these trips cannot take place so the out goodwill from teachers and they need to do their bit.

This comes down to whether you were made aware of this when you interviewed for the role, and did you make them aware of your caring responsibilities when you were assigned your year group

Going on residentials is not part of a teacher's contract. Laughing my head off at the very idea that a teacher gets to choose what year level they are assigned.
The only post where I could see this as being an issue is HOY of lower school years where whole year trips are more of a thing.

Hey..I think forget about all the different arguments of what's 'expected' for a teacher or not..some may be valid but not really relevant here. If you don't feel comfortable leaving your 4 year old for a week of overnights then don't. Just let the school know you can't attend due to childcare issues.

When your child is a bit older you may feel more willing to make the trade of your time, for staff goodwill, promotion prospects, being there with your class etc. Even a week of doing something different and maybe even a bit fun at times?? And only you will know when that may be, when child is 7ish?

Go with your gut on this one and take any hit of others' opinion - your children come first when little. X

Sorry I think you are being a bit U. You’ve said it’s because of your 4 yr old but really it sounds like something you just don’t think teachers should have to do without getting extra pay.

I think it’s not unreasonable to say to your head that you’d rather not do it for this year given how young your child is, but you’d be happy to do your bit in the future. Or as others have said go for part of the time if that would make it easier.

There are also literally thousands of other jobs where this sort of thing is expected- for example in my job I regularly have to travel to meet clients, meaning I leave often on Sunday afternoon, then spend hours travelling often doing work at the same time, 2/3 days at a hotel/ in meetings, the. Travel back. The evenings are spent catching up on other work or socialising with clients which is often a PITA. It’s exhausting. I get my travel expenses, daily living allowance which covers food and sometimes give myself the morning off the next day (boss is fine with this) if work allows, but no extra salary. Plus even when not travelling I don’t finish before 7/ 7.30pm and I get 30 days holiday. Pay is decent but not a fortune. I enjoy the work. 3 kids at home, youngest is 7. Honestly, is this really any worse than a residential once a year?

So sad that there is no countryside or coastal areas nearer to London.

As for part time, I am contracted part time as well but had a massive deadline that fell at the end of the school holidays. I had to work today non working days, evenings, weekends, booked holidays while the kids were at home under my feet. No it wasn't ideal, and I suppose I could have refused, but then the deadline would have been missed and everyone would have remembered my lack of professionalism and i would have list goodwill. It's just how it is sometimes. You have to decide if the overall package is worth it and if not, look elsewhere. No point in just being resentful. Or you can try and negotiate some flexibiities in return, or see if the unions will take up the cause of additional pay for residebtials or whatever. Just telling randoms on mumsnet that we rxect so much isnt likely to help.

How very unreasonable of him.

i wou look d say that i can go part of the week that falls in line with your normal acho hours. Assuming you work a few full days and not half days every day.
so will drive yourself there.

but you can’t go for the full week as you have other commitments on your none working days.

youll still end up working for free in the evenings and get little to no sleep those nights as at least one child will probably be up but at least it’s something

That isn't really what I said. I said the place they choose has a lot of benefits. The council wanted to sell it and there was a local campaign to save it. So obviously a lot of people thought the same way I do. Some people might have preferred somewhere closer or that they don't go at all but, as I said, you can't please everyone. I do agree some trips are way overambitious and can't see the need for long haul flights etc at secondary. But 3.5 hours in a coach seems OK to me. They remember stopping at a service station and making snowmen. We rarely get snow.

I’m in a professional role with a private company. Last week I worked 15 hours over my “paid” hours, I’ll do similar this week. I don’t do it every week, but do at times.

The week before I spent 3 nights away with evening conferences and meetings.

I regularly have other professionals emailing me at midnight or in the early hours when up against a client deadline.

When I started my job it was politely requested I opt out of the working time directive.

Plenty (most?) professional jobs expect you to work above your contracted hours, my contract even says I’m expected to do so when required by the business.

@Iwasafool With respect, I'm pleased I don't work with your husband if that is genuinely his attitude.
Supposing you were a teacher yourself with a 4 yo and working p/t would he expect you to attend 5 days of residential?
@MimiSunshine Yes, I could perhaps offer two days with them and see if that's feasible?

@iNoticed I do work above my hours.
Every. Single. Day.
Today I'm not "working". Except I am. I am planning my lessons for next week and completing my online training.