Why is Kamala referred to as a Black Woman?

[Vior]

Watched a doc on iplayer and it struck me that many commentators referred to Kamala as a black woman. It’s not just sloppiness as some of the black, democrat women participating did similar.

It intrigues me. Especially as a woman with a half Indian daughter. I think I would be pretty surprised if DD referred to herself as purely English or purely Indian. She can pass for both depending on tan.

I know the US has a much different view on race and assume it is based on that. Genuinely interested. Not rage baiting. Have googled the question and no answer has really emerged.

But race IS a made up social construct. That doesn’t mean that racism doesn’t exist or that it doesn’t massively impact people’s lives.

The concept of biological race, including "Caucasian", has been roundly debunked. You seem to think racial classifications exist in biology but they do not.

Race isn't totally divorced from biology. White people are classed as white because of their heritage and what it means for their biology.

The tricky part is that the boundaries are arbitrary, many people are actually mixed and historically it becomes even more fraught to define who is who, and the boundaries are different in different countries, and at differernt times.

There was a time when it was common for people to think of the French and English as being differernt races. It wasn't, and today still isn't always, a matter just of pigmentation. Many Mediterranean, "white" people can be quite swarthy. OTOH, I had a black girl in my class at school who had milky skin with freckles, blue eyes, and bright red hair - but her facial features and hair were the most classically African types you could imagine, and her family was in the main dark skinned. She was definitely seen as black though and thought of herself as black, there was no doubt about her heritage.

My partner always uses black for anyone who isn't basically Northern European which I find weird but is fairly common where he comes from. Then you have Americans who consider Hispanic a race when technically a language group and there are white Hispanic people in the Americas.

I think a lot of our old racial categories are becoming not fit for purpose and I won't be surprised to see them change somewhat or some may fall out of use in the future.

Then you have Americans who consider Hispanic a race when technically a language group and there are white Hispanic people in the Americas.

Some Americans might, but the US generally considers Hispanic and Latino as an ethnicity, not a race. Forms asking for this information usually separate questions about race from questions about ethnicity. So for example, you might check "white" as well as "Hispanic."

I obviously meant if she is part black, part asian she can identify as either or both. People will see what they want to see anyway. So she isn’t obligated to make others comfortable with what she sees herself as.
this isn’t one-drop. One of her parents is black. And that trotted out ‘we were all black once’ thing is stupid.

Same here. Cousin on my mum's side told me flat out I'm not mum's nationality, and cousins on dad's side are polite enough but clearly think I'm 'other'. We can't win!

And when referring to a Black person, you should use a capital B

No. That is not the norm in the majority black country i am from and I don't see why I need to conform to very politicised Americanisations.

I don't think race is a biological category. I was pointing out that it is not i.e. that the classification 'caucasian' - notably used by Meghan, Duchess of Sussex before she decided being black was more useful - does not mean 'white' (as USians appear to think). And that actual looks are entirely fluid i.e. it isn't possible to differentiate between someoe Spanish and someone who has partial ancestry from the subcontinent.
Generally, I think culture more important than the construction that is called 'race'. Culture happens.
From the point of view of culture, Kamala Harris is certainly not Indian (she appears to have no cultural baggage from there) but is possibly 'African-American' by descent. However, she does not appear to have cultural attributes that e.g. BLM supporters consider 'black'. Indeed, if she were not presidential candidate and also in a position to be useful to BLM I suspect many would have some deeply racists epithets for her (which I won't repeat - anyway MN prob bans them) because she does not act 'black' in their terms (and nor did Obama).

You are massively projecting. Kamala Harris was raised by her Indian mother and does connect to the culture. And as an Alpha Kappa Alpha from Howard, believe me, she is recognised as Black. On top of that, some people differentiate between African-Americans and West Indians/Black Caribbean. Harris is the latter not the former. Your knowledge of American culture appears to be lacking.

And as an Alpha Kappa Alpha from Howard, believe me, she is recognised as Black.

Exactly. I think there are quite a few posters who clearly do not understand enough about African American culture and identity in the US to recognize the significance of her attending an HBCU and being a member of the Divine Nine.

If you are addressing me, I am British so I won't understand some nuances of US culture. But I see no Asian attributes in K. Harris (by Asian I mean from the subcontinent of India btw) in either her behaviour or her attitudes. That she did well at college is excellent but tells you nothing about her 'race' although it might say a lot about her culture, I suppose - which BLM, with its victim-culture probably sees as non-black.

Pardon me for the ignorance but what is an Alpha Kappa Alpha?

What are ‘Asian attributes’ and in what way do they fail to manifest in her ‘behaviour or attitudes’?

AKAs are an elite Black sorority.

Talking to my DD last week (had just been to theatre and seen really awful play, which was reason I was seeing her). I mentioned that I always wash-up in running water, and she said she also did this, much to the amazement of her friends. It's an Indian habit - originally dishes would be washed in a stream, then under running water, now with a dishwasher (dishwashers are the ultimate answer) as it is important for the dishes not to sit in dirty water. Ditto is the reason for the popularity of showers over baths. But generally, a sense of family being very, very important, that one supports family above others (can be tricky - nepotism can easily result), a sense of being part of a community, that people 'have their being' within the entire population of Hinduism, rather than as individuals. A sense of the oneness of God, who is present in many aspects; a sense that what you do always has consequences and these consequences will come back, though not necessarily this time round (re-incarnation, a belief shared with Bhuddism) but that 'karma' will play out over the length of your spiritual life (this belief got England manager Glen Hoddle sacked) and therefore you should take account of this in your life. That God is good and that virtue will be rewarded with prosperity (bit Calvinist).

So….you know how Kamala Harris does her dishes(?!). Feels about her family, her community, her religious beliefs and all that stuff??
not all South East Asians are Hindu btw.

I would imagine that Kamala Harris earns enough to afford a dishwasher so that's covered.

Indians are South Asian not South East Asian

• Most of those things are also true of many African cultures.
• Not all Asians are Buddhist or Hindu, either culturally or in terms of belief. Some of my friends are hardline atheists, are they somehow less Asian? Are Asian Muslims and Christians somehow not possessing of these alleged attributes?
• You have no idea how Kamala washes her dishes or her sense of family, so - even within your very narrow framework of ‘Asianness’ - you have no knowledge of her attributes, attitudes or behaviours.

No. And I know that. And dishes weren't really the point - it's the purity aspect. Most cultures have these attributes, true. They don't all go in for bride burning over dowries or honour killings, or bride price, though, which were three aspects (one Hindu, one Muslim, one found among many tribal societies in Africa) I didn't mention. Also the desire for sons, not daughters. Not even Medieval European monarchs were so fierce in their desire for sons, and certainly did not see daughters as a burden because they would become members of someone else's family, which trait can be found within particularly Hindu culture, where daughters literally cease to become a member of the family on marriage, and may be an ongoing source of trouble from the husband's family demanding more dowry. Dowry itself, illegal along with child marriage in India, is a potent burden on families which seemingly cannot be got rid of, despite the urgings of reformers such as my DD's grandfather.
And no, I don't know anything about K. Harris' private life. I do know she backed the inclusion of transwomen in women's spaces.

Geez, this is quite illuminating.

On the one hand, for some people, Harris is insufficiently Indian, and on the other you have Trump campaign folks saying that, if she wins, the White House "will smell like curry & White House speeches will be facilitated via a call center”.

Most of that has nothing whatsoever to do with what I asked.

You said But I see no Asian attributes in K. Harris (by Asian I mean from the subcontinent of India btw) in either her behaviour or her attitudes.

That is why we’re having this conversation. You cannot provide any ‘attributes’ that are applicable to all Asians or that are only applicable to Asians. And you have no knowledge of her attitudes and very limited knowledge of her behaviour. So, that statement was nonsensical.

Racists aren’t logical. If they were, they wouldn’t be racist.

That is a bizarre set of "cultural attributes" especially since you don't know her personally or what she does in her private life. And you admit you're not familiar with Black culture but feel free to judge Kamala Harris' place in it. I've lived in the USA for over a decade.

But I don't see any attributes. I don't actually expect any, TBH. She seems to me (from the UK) just like any other USian. I don't get these weird racist tropes the US has, that some people are black with a capital b (it's not a proper noun, and if you are going to capitalise it then so should you capitalise 'white' or 'brown') and others are Hispanic, and some are Irish-Americans (the Irish have a word for that) and Italian-Americans and so on. They've even told us - the Anglo-Saxon-Celts - that we cannot use Anglo-Saxon for our own history and the culture of England (Angleland btw) c. 600-1066 as 'Anglo-Saxon' is racist because WASP - that's a USian problem and they need to keep their hands off other people's history. I am sorry if you are not American as this is not really getting at you, just frustration, but it just annoys me that a people demonstrably of one culture (albeit various states have their own cultures, too, I know) that is recognisable to me in the UK, from a different culture, go on continually about race and different cultures according to colour and ancient ancestry. Sorry for intemperant rant.
Glad I do not have to vote either for Harris or Trump.
NB Nothing is attributable to all Asians (from my pov those of south-east Asian heritage, i.e. not of Vietnamese or Chinese heritage) as is nothing attributable to all British people, or all Europeans. That's read in anything one says.