Why is Kamala referred to as a Black Woman?

[Vior]

Watched a doc on iplayer and it struck me that many commentators referred to Kamala as a black woman. It’s not just sloppiness as some of the black, democrat women participating did similar.

It intrigues me. Especially as a woman with a half Indian daughter. I think I would be pretty surprised if DD referred to herself as purely English or purely Indian. She can pass for both depending on tan.

I know the US has a much different view on race and assume it is based on that. Genuinely interested. Not rage baiting. Have googled the question and no answer has really emerged.

No one actually cared until she became a US presidential candidate 🤔

Most racial terms have a strong element of cultural definition behind them. They don't map on perfectly to ancestry or ethnicity.

It's pretty common in the US for people who are mixed race to describe themselves as black. It's also I think not uncommon in Jamaica, and KH's father is Jamaican - my SIL is Jamaican, with African, Jewish and Chinese ancestry, and she in many contexts would describe herself as black. KH also went to a black college which in the US means she spent some formative years of her young adulthood in a very overtly "black" environment.

Another thing to remember is that in the AMericas generally, most people who are black have some European ancestry - sometimes quite a lot. This has been true for many generations, even when there was racial segregation. So visually, you often cannot tell if someone has two "black" parents, or if the parents were two different races, or what. If I were going to describe someone, even just in my own mind, I'd have no way to know if they were mixed or black. This is somewhat less the case in the UK where a lot of the black population is clearly African, and people will sometimes differentiate African ancestry people from those with Caribbean ancestry.

All that being said, I'm seeing it becoming more common for mixed race people in the US to call themselves that, and the demographics of the black population has changed really a lot in recent years.

Hawaii is unusual because the population really is very mixed generally. Not just Polynesian, but lots of Japanese, Chinese, and others.

Plus as such a strong tourist destination and such a small place, there is a lot of local/incomer element added into the mix.

Because it's incredible to see ourselves represented, and we're excited and proud.

The one drop rule is an extremely racist holdover from the period of slavery, but it is still culturally true. In the US, if Harris called herself Asian it would not be broadly accepted. Obama could never have "passed" (terrible word, apologies) as white. Mixed race, sure, but everyone would still think of him as Black. Halle Berry once said that in high school her Black friends thought she could "pass" and she said they they didn't understand that the white students definitely saw her as Black, no matter how fair she might look.

if That’s what you wanted to do then say that. Instead you asked why a Black woman refers to herself as Black??!
the US had a one drop rule meaning having a Black parent or grandparent makes a person Black.
And when referring to a Black person, you should use a capital B. There is literally so much on this online or in books. If you were genuinely interested your ‘google search’ would have produced a wealth of information, not sure why you thought mumsnet was the right place for this .

‘ni such thing as race’ is really giving ‘I don’t see colour’. OP you have much learning to do on race and identity especially as a mother of a mixed race child.

Firstly, my understanding here comes from the various people of colour I've spoken to about identity and politics- I am white and it is not, personally, my area.

It seems that some people, with Kamala Harris' heritage, would identify as black, Indian, mixed-race, or a combination of those terms, mostly depending on the community they were raised in and the demographic they're speaking to. In that sense, it's code-switching. Combined with cultural history, like the aforementioned "one drop rule" and the politicisation of black lives in the U.S.A., I can imagine that 'black' feels like the most relevant term to explain her experiences and the prejudices she is up against. As a PP mentioned, 'white' is often still viewed as the 'default' race in many Western communities, and as such people who are mixed-race white and black are far more likely to identify actively with their black identity than their white background. Kamala Harris does seem to throw a lot of people off in that sense, coming from two minority backgrounds and forcing people to eschew that assumed 'default.' Being Indian, which I imagine Harris considers equally important on a personal level, simply doesn't hold the same cultural connotations and context in the U.S.A. as being black does. That's not to say whether it should or should not, but at the moment it isn't as politically and socially relevant to her career and campaign.

There is also a level of negative connotation people feel towards being called "half" one race or the other, which is understandable. If you have grown up both black and Indian, and have been perceived by others as both black and Indian, have been involved in both black and Indian communities for your entire life, it seems strange for others to insist on the 'half and half' terminology. Obviously there is also a long history in Western societies of attempting to divide and categorise minority ethnic communities into what is considered easiest for white people to understand, which must be uncomfortable to feel reflected in current discussions. Technically, genetically, Harris is half black and half Indian. Culturally, and societally, she is black, and she is Indian.

All of that aside, I do think the wider media have a responsibility not to actively ignore or erase her Indian heritage and identity when she mentions it. I think the onus to remember, respect and not make assumptions about people's racial identity is mostly that of white people, myself included.

This is a massive generalisation. I have a black grandparent. But I also have 3 white ones. So I don't look black (or white). If I were to claim to be black, even in the US, I'd be accused of cultural representation or something similar. I wish I could claim to be black (or white) but no, I'm neither.

As I recall, the singer Halsey got pushback a few years ago for referring to herself as Black (one white parent, one mixed-race) and even she says she's "white passing". I suspect anyone less Black than that would not even say it, unless through some chance of the genetic shuffle they looked Black. So the one-drop rule is not quite true anymore.

Not in America. They had laws back in the day where "one drop of black blood means you're black".

No , we’re triggered by you telling a black man he’s not allowed to call himself a black man. He can be mixed race and a black man. I don’t know why you don’t seem to understand this.

🤬. Ok go tell Kamala Harris she’s “not black”, and that’s she’s a “racist” for defining as such. I’m sure she’ll appreciate your opinion about her racial identity and racism.

The thing is though - would you allow me - I'm (I guess) a quarter black. My mother was bi-racial and father white - to call myself black? Because not many black people would think I was black I'm sure. But then I'm not white either. So surely that's the worst of all worlds. Don't belong anywhere.
If I have a tan and don't straighten my hair I look obviously "mixed" but in the winter and if I straighten I'd look almost white. Most people probably would think I was Greek or maybe Iranian or something.
I genuinely feel like I have no identity.

The thing is though - would you allow me - to call myself black?

Yes of course. I’d never consider it my place to tell any mixed race person how to describe their race or ethnicity.

I genuinely feel like I have no identity

😢. That sucks that we live in a world that makes you feel that way.

Don't believe everything you read on the internet. Just because someone said it does not make it correct. People write a lot of stupid shit. Black Americans have a variety of views on capitalizing the word blac

@Shesshinysheila identity of one, it certainly feels like that but you're not alone. My dad was Nigerian/British and my mum British. Everyone assumes I'm white but really I've been othered plenty of times through my life so I don't think white enough. Plus that's not my world, an all white one. It makes a difference.

Because there is pride in being Black. We love our skin/race. She can call herself whatever she wants.

The 'one drop' rule is definitely racist.

Only in the US? A Spanish person in Europe is white - though he/she may be quite dark skinned with black hair and brown eyes.

Why does everyone only ever cite the British as though they alone both invented slavery and carried it out?
For the record, the British were the first to end any sort of slavery e.g. the Triangular Trade. Slavery became illegal c. 1102 in England (no sale of slaves) and was ended by the Normans in Ireland during the twelfth century. Most of Europe ended slavery by the 13th century. Portugal picked up on the Arab/African slave trade and tapped into it around 1490.

This thread is utterly batshit. A mixed race person obviously chooses which part of their ancestry they identify with or chooses to identify as mixed heritage. I can't get over the arrogance of people thinking they can dictate this for others. What is this? Mugglebloods and purebloods? Wow. Just catch on to yourselves.

Lots of mixed race people don’t necessarily like the bi racial or mixed race tag but if they look not white feel like they have to have a label or evidence of their heritage. Take my DB’s ex girlfriend, she’s very obviously mixed race with olive skin, hazel eyes and curly dark brown hair (not Afro type though). She can pass if she likes for Spanish or Italian which she has done. Her white, Irish parentage mother always told her, her dad’s name was Mr Brown and he was Jamaican, they lived near Moss Side, Manchester. She now knows her DM made up the name and heritage, she’s tried to do DNA testing but brings up nothing but she’d love to have some proper evidence of where her dad was from, her DM is now dead.

@Vior, watch Noah Trevor's comedy routine about when Barak Obama got upgraded from "mixed" to "black". At least NT saw the change that way, as an upgrade. To be something definite. NT is also "mixed" btw. I imagine that's a reason people are keen to call KH "black". It's definitely a something to be black.

I perceive that KH is very keen to not be defined by her racial heritage or her sex. I deeply applaud her for endeavouring to do that.

Up until the last half century it did mean white. Not so now. My son identifies as English, he is half white English, half Indian.