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Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Identity Cards: yes or no?

393 replies

Papyrophile · 09/09/2024 20:38

Gerard Darminin, French Home Secretary equivalent, has said that the UK is making itself a migrant target because we have no national officially issued ID card proving entitlement.

I, a very ordinary citizen, already have an NHS number issued at birth, and a National Insurance number sent to me at 16, neither of which has changed. I also have a passport number, due for renewal next year, a driver's license and a Government Gateway number for my occasional exchanges with officialdom.

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

OP posts:
Edingril · 09/09/2024 21:56

So the government would have what people freely give out on the internet themselves and people complain about it?

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/09/2024 21:57

b) we have too generous a benefit/support system for asylum seekers

Please expand a little on this. Let's see just how overly generous the system actually is.

mitogoshi · 09/09/2024 21:58

I would love a multi purpose card you could use for id, drivers licence, visiting other countries which don't require stamps (eu once new system is in place) etc. nothing to hide

HappiestSleeping · 09/09/2024 21:58

Battlerope · 09/09/2024 21:04

Perhaps it could be a chip in your neck. Like a cat.

I thought more my finger 🤣

HappiestSleeping · 09/09/2024 21:59

LaPalmaLlama · 09/09/2024 21:12

All those numbers ( other than passport- I can’t think of a country that doesn’t have separate passport numbers as these change when you renew) would become obsolete- your number for all public services would be your ID number.

Yeah, but a single card could carry them all electronically. I hate having to carry 'stuff'. Just have one card and be done. Or the chip in the finger thing. That would work too.

SleepGoalsJumped · 09/09/2024 21:59

We had ID cards during WW2.

On February 21st, 1952, Churchill's new Conservative government, which had campaigned under the slogan "Set the people free," abolished National Identity Cards as part of a campaign against regulations and controls.

The cards had been introduced in 1939 as a wartime measure, anticipating the dislocation of the population that would be caused by mobilization and mass evacuation. The postwar Labour government retained them, citing their need for National Service registration, rationing, the Health Service, family allowances, and post-war credits. Post Office clerks who were uncertain of a customer's identity, could demand to see them.

The police fell into the habit of demanding to see them, even for trivial matters such as overstaying one's time in a parking slot. There was a widespread feeling, expressed in Parliament, that this was un-British, and was more redolent of the practices of totalitarian countries. A famous test case aided those campaigning for repeal.

When Clarence Willcock, a dry cleaning manager, was stopped on suspicion of speeding, the police demanded to see his ID card. He refused on principle, and was convicted and fined at a magistrate's court. He took the case to the Court of Appeal, and although the judgement against him was upheld, Lord Chief Justice Lord Goddard commented that the Act was intended for emergency uses, now over, and should not be invoked on trivial matters. He further remarked that demanding production of the card for its own sake tended “to turn law-abiding subjects into lawbreakers, which is a most undesirable state of affairs."

I see no evidence that we wouldn't get similar levels of petty criminalisation if they were reintroduced.

Papyrophile · 09/09/2024 22:01

Just saying that I'm silent now until morning...

OP posts:
maddening · 09/09/2024 22:05

I think it is a good idea, not everyone has a passport or drives so a universal Id would be good

HaddyAbrams · 09/09/2024 22:08

I wouldn't have a problem with some kind of ID document, provided it was genuinely affordable. That is to say cheaper than the current options.

Like a PP I'm sick of things being so hard without ID. I've not yet found anything to be impossible, but things are getting harder.

Regarding NHS numbers, I'm sure mine changed at some point. It used to have letters and now doesn't.

Alapotin · 09/09/2024 22:24

What was the charge they wanted for them, I don't mind similar to driving licence charge of about £20 but I don't think a passport type charge would go down very well

Almostwelsh · 09/09/2024 22:28

The charge would be similar to a passport, as they would need the same sort of processing, biometrics and identity checking as a passport.

Almostwelsh · 09/09/2024 22:29

Or at least a passport type charge was what was proposed last time. People who already have passports not unreasonably questioned why they should pay again for a similar document

Almostwelsh · 09/09/2024 22:31

I think about 40 pounds was quoted last time, but that was over 20 years ago, would be a lot more now.

Arrivapercy · 09/09/2024 22:32

I have no issue with having an ID card. I already have things like a photocard drivers license and a national insurance card. If it would reduce crime, help the police etc, great.

brunettemic · 09/09/2024 22:33

Honestly couldn’t care less. I’d need to be able to have it on my phone though as I often only take my phone and keys out. If it’s a physical card it’s sitting at home a lot.

AgileGreenSeal · 09/09/2024 22:39

No thanks.
I don’t need one.

AgileGreenSeal · 09/09/2024 22:40

XDownwiththissortofthingX · 09/09/2024 20:47

Why would anyone who has nothing to hide from the authorities prefer not to hold an official proof of identity?

I already have plenty of means of identifying myself to anyone who genuinely needs to know, and "nothing to hide" arguments are ridiculous, because the implication is objecting to them suggests you do indeed have something to hide, fundamentally at odds with the notion of presumed innocence.

Edited

This.

AgileGreenSeal · 09/09/2024 22:42

Papyrophile · 09/09/2024 20:54

I suppose what I mean is a means of proving your bona fides, in the sense of entitled to work, access healthcare, or just prove that you have a legitimate right to live in the UK.

How often would you need to use it though? Realistically.

DwightDFlysenhower · 09/09/2024 22:44

I wouldn't want them to always have to be carried to be honest.

But to use them for voting, when you start a new job, if you move doctors surgery, for ID when buying age-restricted products etc. I think a single standard card is a good idea.

FastFood · 09/09/2024 22:45

Since when are we listening to what Gerald Darmanin is saying 😂
Believe me in France no one can stand him.

This said, we have ID Cards there (in France) they're free to make.
I'm not sure I get the point about the NHS number, I have one too, despite not being British. Same with driving license. It proves your identity but not that you're a british citizen.

AgileGreenSeal · 09/09/2024 22:46

Papyrophile · 09/09/2024 21:44

I simply want a single document or card that proves my identity and my entitlement to medical treatment in the first instance, and to rent a home and take employment after that. Voting comes third.

How often do you need to produce ID to do those things? Can you produce ID to do them now?

Escaperoom · 09/09/2024 22:48

Many older people give up their driving licence and may not keep up their passport either if they are no longer travelling abroad due to mobility problems or lack of access to travel insurance. Not having any valid ID can be a problem - I have had to show mine in the bank for example when opening a new account. So I think an ID card is quite a good idea for some people but it would need to be voluntary as you can't really make something compulsory and then expect people to pay a considerable amount of money for it as many poorer people would not be able to afford it.

AgileGreenSeal · 09/09/2024 22:49

This reply has been deleted

This has been deleted by MNHQ for breaking our Talk Guidelines.

Exactly! 👏🏻👏🏻👏🏻

SprigatitoYouAndIKnow · 09/09/2024 22:50

I think it is a great idea. I was disappointed Blair didn't get them in, as I was young looking at the time and didn't drive, so would have liked the id for pubs. Now I am old looking and don't drink 😂. Would be useful for people that don't drive and don't want to take their passports out. A card just fits in your wallet. As with others, I have lived in a couple of countries where it is the norm. Happy to pay too, you fo for passports and DL anyway.

SpiritAdder · 09/09/2024 22:51

I personally think that British passports should be free and issued shortly after birth to all eligible babies born anywhere in the world (proper application Ofc) and the passport is the official ID. Passports are about to go digital anyway. We won’t be carrying those little books for much longer. So digital passport for all citizens and..

All legal migrants already have a form of National ID- it is a BRP and lists type of visa, whether can access benefits or not (no recourse to public funds), and is used to show right to work, right to rent, and access the NHS. Although right to work and right to rent is now done by digital share codes where the eligibility is checked real time with the Home Office in case the BRP is forged or tampered with. These are also going to go digital.

I don’t see a need to create another form of ID.