Neighbour lied they owned the house

[Fluffywalrus]

I need to share this somewhere because my partner keeps saying there could be some other explanation.. but I'm just flabbergasted!

I bought and moved into my home more than THREE YEARS ago. Because of the structure of the properties there's one neighbour whose home is very entwined with mine and whose property shares a lot of structural things with mine.

I made a point to knock on their door a few days after moving in to introduce myself and I remember we had a long chat and I came away with the understanding that she had bought that property several years before. I can't remember the exact words used but I remember being pleasantly surprised because I'd assumed it would be rented rather than the owner living there, which made things much simpler.

Since then we've had countless long friendly chats about work, partners, pets, holidays etc. and probably see her and exchange pleasantries a few times a week in the street. We also got to know her partner who moved in later.

A few days ago we bumped into her partner out and about and he told us they had moved out and bought somewhere. I was surprised that she wouldn't have said goodbye or mention they were leaving. We'd had various chats about plans for the summer and this was never mentioned. But most shockingly, when I asked about their plans for the property he said they just rent it and the lease was coming to an end. She didn't actually own it at all !!

Over the years I've consulted with her on various things I've done to the property renovation-wise, which might impact her and asked various questions regarding the property (due to her living there longer) and most recently got permission for some work that is due to happen in a few weeks. I'm at a complete loss of what to do now. At no point did she say anything to suggest she wasn't the owner e.g. 'I don't know as I'm just renting. I'll have to check with my landlord / the owner.' etc.

My partner thinks I must have just assumed wrongly. But surely even if she hadn't lied and it was a misunderstanding at some point in all these discussions she would have pointed out she didn't own this place?!

AIBU to think they're been misleading?

Oh, that makes more sense of my experience — I hadn’t realised some people are so secretive about renting! We’d just moved out of London, and were used to people renting quite grand places, and hadn’t realised it coded as ‘slightly shameful secret’ in our prosperous, aspirational MLC village.

Jesus, this is a stretch!

@Fluffywalrus Get onto the Land Registry and get the name of the owner. Electoral Roll search afterwards and also try Companies House. Is there an estate agent sign if it's being re-let?

Oh come on. Don't be dim. For a very specific reason.

Lol (although it's not remotely funny) at people not understanding op's problem and assuming she's being nosey or somehow weirdly snobby about tenants vs owners.

Just a guess but one possible explanation is that a family member is the owner, so she simply said she was the owner for handiness’ sake, as she may have had all permissions etc from the legal owner.

She may not have told the partner this when they moved in for financial reasons, which may explain him saying they are going to buy and not knowing that you are under the impression she is the owner!

Can you put a letter in the door of the property and address it to the owner, they may have a re-direction to the person who owns the property for these things. Or the new owners/tenants should be able to give you the details?

If in Scotland the landlord is on a register that is public but not for England or Wales as far as I know

Sounds as though she owned the lease, which is not the same as renting, but not the same as owning the freehold, either. Many properties in London (and randomly Birmingham) are or were leasehold. So there is a mortgage on the leasehold and ground rent. I doubt the owner of the freehold is going to be objectionable now since you consulted the lease-holder (who owns the property - but not the land it stands on - for the duration of the lease, some leases are 999 years btw) on all the work you did.

@Fluffywalrus I would ask the scaffolding company/builders if they've ever encountered this issue before and what they did as I don't think it will cover you to just say you hadn't realised/took whoever's word for it. I have never heard of people having to go so far as to check Land Reg before starting work on terraces (have lived in London for a long time) but may be it does happen.

No it doesn't.

You sound like you think less of her because she wasn't a home owner?

I really don't get how you're making this assumption from anything OP has said.

She's pissed off as now she's in a predicament that might cost her money, and rightly so. The only thing the OP is guilty of is being naive and not getting permission in writing but I suspect many of us would take our neighbour"s word for it that they owned their property. She's certainly not coming across as someone who looks down her nose at renters 🤷‍♀️

No, this is a crazy theory. This is not what happened, this isn't how things work with leasehold properties. Tenants said they were leaving because they bought somewhere in any case.

I'm agog at the nonsense on this thread.

Well no, as the neighbour would have sold the property if that was the case and OP would know.

Everyone understands her question! They are contextualising why some people are coy about admitting they are renting, because some people are quite weird about it.

I would write sort of a letter/ a note and put it through the letterbox. At some point the owner or someone on behalf of them will come.
Also could you go through the council permission? I know it’s not ideal in some situations but it will give you protection as they will be responsible for notifying etc.

I wouldn't cancel the work, chances are the owner of the property next door would give you access anyway as it will impact their property adversely should you decide not to go ahead with the work.
I would put a note through the letter box explaining the situation and include your own contact details so when the owner (or their representative) of the property turn up to have a once over (most would after a tenant moved out), they know what is going on and can get in touch if they want to.

And coming out with some downright bizarre reasons why actually the neighbour DID own the house and digging OP out unnecessarily about her reasons for being annoyed.

The land registry lists the legal owners but you can't really tell if it is a let if you talk to the occupier and even then can't really rule out that you may be talking to the owners husband/ wife/ child etc

She probably thought she was able to give the permission for scaffolding/access to her side and didn't think too much more in to it. Then so it happened, she moved again still not thinking anything more. This is typical renter stuff, don't care. Usually it is the home owners making a song and dance about neighbours having work done, especially when it comes to scaffolding.

Don’t be so ridiculous, she wasn’t being a good neighbour at all.

She clearly misled the OP by firstly giving permission for the work to go ahead when she’s not the legal owner and has no authority to give permission and secondly for not informing the real owner that the neighbour is planning to undertake structural repairs.

@Fluffywalrus If the repairs are essential for maintaining the fabric of the building, I’d go ahead and get them done and if the real owner turns up, I’d tell her/him that Mrs X had given permission as the owner of the property and they’ll need to take it up with Mrs X directly.

But that aside, is there any activity like from estate or lettings agents? I'm sure it won't be just left there empty?

If the people you're speaking to have the same name as the people identified in the Land Registry records - it's a pretty good indication they're the owners and you're good to go. No need to overcomplicate.

If its owned by a company (in London - coudl be) then you need to get onto Co House and check there for the directors and/owners. If there are other ambiguities you have to just ask (like a member of the human race.)

This thread is the best one I have read in years!

so many crazy theories about this woman secretly owning the property but keeping her partner in the dark - it being owned by a relative etc etc etc.

it seems fairly obvious this was a rented house. The lady for whatever reason didn’t tell her neighbour which wouldn’t normally matter but in this case she has given permissions and now have moved on. Those permissions won’t be binding so OP is understandably pissed off and puzzled.

Exactly my point. It’s not clear from the OP if she means lease or rental.

Rental terms don’t come to an end - you either give notice (unless the owner wants it back, decides to sell). If it was leased then it wasn’t a rental.

It's pretty obvious she means rental. She mentions the lease coming to an end but means tenancy. If the neighbours owned the lease, they'd have sold the property and I assume would have told OP they were doing so, rather than just snuck off without a word!