Neighbour lied they owned the house

[Fluffywalrus]

I need to share this somewhere because my partner keeps saying there could be some other explanation.. but I'm just flabbergasted!

I bought and moved into my home more than THREE YEARS ago. Because of the structure of the properties there's one neighbour whose home is very entwined with mine and whose property shares a lot of structural things with mine.

I made a point to knock on their door a few days after moving in to introduce myself and I remember we had a long chat and I came away with the understanding that she had bought that property several years before. I can't remember the exact words used but I remember being pleasantly surprised because I'd assumed it would be rented rather than the owner living there, which made things much simpler.

Since then we've had countless long friendly chats about work, partners, pets, holidays etc. and probably see her and exchange pleasantries a few times a week in the street. We also got to know her partner who moved in later.

A few days ago we bumped into her partner out and about and he told us they had moved out and bought somewhere. I was surprised that she wouldn't have said goodbye or mention they were leaving. We'd had various chats about plans for the summer and this was never mentioned. But most shockingly, when I asked about their plans for the property he said they just rent it and the lease was coming to an end. She didn't actually own it at all !!

Over the years I've consulted with her on various things I've done to the property renovation-wise, which might impact her and asked various questions regarding the property (due to her living there longer) and most recently got permission for some work that is due to happen in a few weeks. I'm at a complete loss of what to do now. At no point did she say anything to suggest she wasn't the owner e.g. 'I don't know as I'm just renting. I'll have to check with my landlord / the owner.' etc.

My partner thinks I must have just assumed wrongly. But surely even if she hadn't lied and it was a misunderstanding at some point in all these discussions she would have pointed out she didn't own this place?!

AIBU to think they're been misleading?

Do you know that for sure? About permission from the owner for scaffolding?

It's what I assumed.. but I'm so stuck now as the work is urgently needed with the problem getting worse and supposed to be happening in days. And now I don't even have the actual owners' contact details.

I was thinking of just sending letters to his old address (hopefully still current) and through the door next door to inform him it was happening but if I need his permission then that requires me to wait for him to get in contact with me. And I'm snookered if he doesn't bother.

🙄think you're projecting a bit

I think that's all you can do. Your local council might have contact details, if they're a registered landlord? Might not be able/willing to share but might pass on a message.

If the neighbours have moved out you would expect new tenants to move in soon. So watch for it being advertised. Also, anyone else in the street lived there a long time who might have information on the owner?

I think some commentators are fixating on the scaffolding going onto the neighbours property rather than the actual issue which related to structural issues. Of course the tenant can give permission for scaffolding to go onto the land. However, the landlord needs to give permission regarding any works that could impact the structure of his home - the landlord owns the property, not the tenant. The neighbour gave permission for scaffolding to be erected on the land, but knew she wouldn't be living there at the time the work was due to be carried out! Therefore, she wasn't in a position to give any permission!! Unfortunately, the OP will need to track down the landlord and ask permission for the scaffolding and the structural work. If there is a new tenant by the time work is carried out, then the landlord will be responsible for advising the new tenants.

That’s a good point about the council possibly knowing. Dont think any other neighbours would know.

im honestly so angry now at this neighbour for not saying anything.

Thank you.

I don’t understand all these people saying it’s none of my business. I’m at risk here of losing a £1500 deposit and my property being damaged further as a result of any delay to the work being completed due to this neighbour not being honest that they couldn’t give permission / wouldn’t even be here!

You're getting a hard time here because some people are extremely sensitive about renting and attitudes (real or perceived) about renters, but of course it's odd that she let you continue to believe she owned the property and never told you she was moving. I agree it's likely that whether it started with a mistake or tiny lie, after it started she felt too awkward to mention that she didn't own the house. It does feel strangely disorienting, though, when you discover that someone has misled you or knowingly allowed you to have a misapprehension for years for no obvious reason.

I don't really see why it matters now but I don't advertise if I rent or own I rent btw but no one ever asks

What was the trampoline thread earlier?

That's not the point of the thread.

It kind of is?

I actually can't believe people think this is no big deal given the very specific context here but this is an interesting lesson. I don't think I would have ever checked the Land Registry, for example, when doing previous work before requesting the Party Wall Act docs to be signed/other issues agreed with next door properties. I would have trusted the people living there to say they didn't own the property and needed to pass to the landlord.

You're going to have to figure out whom to speak to now but it's completely bizarre they didn't flag as @Sassybooklover also notes (I see.)

It really isn't.

OP, it is possible the landlord owns more than one property, he might run a side business. Check his name and address on Companies House.

If you write to the last known address on Land Registry and he no longer lives there, then you could try a tracing company. The one we use at work charges around £70 plus VAT for a basic search.

Looking back I assumed she owned the house because she carried on discussions about fences and property boundaries etc.

I felt it would be rude to ask do you rent - I assumed she would say ‘actually I just need to double check with the landlord’.

there was also an issue on my previous street where a landlord complained that the planning permission notification went to the house and the tenants just ignored it when he would have objected to a neighbours extension. He didn’t get far though as planning permission applications are available online and it’s his responsibility to check.

i have never felt differently about a neighbour because of ownership status - the only difference it makes is who you need permissions from and this happeba very rarely.

I don't understand how she's wronged you do horrifically. You collaborated on stuff relating to the fact you shared common areas/walls etc.
I'd be doing this with my neighbour regardless of whether they are on the deeds or not. Franky that's not actually even your business.
You sound like you think less of her because she wasn't a home owner?
How bizarre for you to care. It sounds like you and her had a lovely relationship. Why on earth should her property ownership status cloud the fact that you were good neighbours to eachother?

No, the point of the thread is that OP is about to (and has already) carried out work that affects the neighbouring property. She thought she had the owners permission but now she finds she doesn't. That's the point of the thread.

Yes.

And absolutely, when we moved to a village, it took me months to notice that people kept asking us ‘Oh, are you living in the rented house?’ in slightly odd tones, as if they were asking whether we had some embarrassing minor ailment. I only realised later that in that kind of environment, renting was viewed as evidence of poverty, and we obviously weren’t poor, judging by our jobs, clothes and car, so they were just puzzled…

Because the legal owner could literally knock on my door on Monday completely outraged when the scaffolding goes up to do work that also affects his property!

People do this. When I first moved into my (rented) house, the same LL owned the property next door; because they are terraced cottages, we'd often have work done at the same time, or they'd access her house via mine, or whatever. I thought nothing of it, and at some point complained to a group of other neighbours about 'our' landlord. My neighbour was mortified and furious I had let out her 'secret' about renting. I think realistically, anyone who'd want to know would have figured it out anyway, but she was really cross and frosty with me, as she wanted it to be thought she'd bought the house. Weird.

They could have had a parent who died and left them a home.

There are literally numerous reasons why they’re having to move suddenly or didn’t want you knowing.

It sounds like she only told you once that they owned it and so it’s very possible you misheard/misunderstood.

The point of the thread is why did the neighbour not tell OP she rented

I think the point is this tenant gave permissions that should have been granted by the owner and OP can’t now rely on them.

for 99% of stuff it’s fine to deal with however is living in the house. But they don’t have the same authority over the structure as the homeowner. They can’t, for example, sign a party wall agreement.

I lived in a block of apartments many years ago and there was huge confusion over who could attend and then vote at meetings of the management company. We had to rerun a whole meeting because tenants were voting and signing documentation that you had to be a property owner and share holder to legally have a say on.

was a mess and the poor tenant a were rightly annoyed that letters had issued to the occupier rather than the property owners!

Yes but she still wants to know why the neighbour mislead her!

just rent it and the lease was coming to an end

Which is it a lease or a rental? If she owned the lease then it wasn’t a rental. If it was a rental there was no lease, merely a rental agreement.