To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

Totally understand that there are individuals who are struggling, and, while I agree with means testing benefits (and also with taking a long hard look at energy pricing), I think the cut off point should be higher and not a cliff edge but tapered.

I just get frustrated by people (not you) who think that their opinions or limited experience outweigh actual facts. Apologies if I sounded snarky.

And especially not when it includes heating which the older generations may need more of

No, they won’t. The ones that get the rent help will still get the WFA. Others won’t get either.

There are a heck of a lot who aren't home owners particularly people who have split with a partner later in life.
Even selling and splitting equity in one house doesn't give them enough to buy a smaller house outright and too old to get a mortgage.

You are probably quite young and don't remember the days of OAPs being really poor and being in poverty. And the official government advice being for elderly personers to wear a woolly indoors in winter.

Many pensioners have so much money they don't know what do with it

😮😮😮

You didn’t sound snarky 😊

Not true.

Those on disability benefits are put through the wringer and have to supply medical proof of their conditions. I'm not sure how the freeloaders and scroungers, get the proof. Do you know?

@poppyzbrite4 they lie and cheat the system.
It's not hard to understand that people do that

My parents and their friends definitely didn't need it. They wouldn't dream of refusing freebies though. They love them and feel entitled to them. I know lots of pensioners like that. Not saying they are all well off. Just that I know lots who are

I agree with you OP.

My partner’s parents are unhappy about it.
They own their house outright. Not millionaires but have a very comfortable life, good work pension, plenty of available cash which they use to help their children/grandchildren, paid off their adult children’s mortgages etc.

There is no way they need an extra few hundred to help with winter fuel bills.

Yes in an ideal world everyone would get these bonuses. But we have a situation in which schools are starved of funds, the NHS is broken, homelessness is a big problem etc.

At times like this we have to accept a reduction in benefits that we don’t need. I lost my child benefit when the restrictions were brought in. Of course I was disappointed but I understood that others needed it more than I did.

It is those just above the threshold who will lose out, but they have gone for the easiest way.

I would advise though that anyone on here or have relatives that they are worried about contact their local CAB / Benefit Advisor to check they are claiming all they are entitled too.

They should target the scroungers and freeloaders who languish on incapacity benefits for imaginary illnesses not frail, elderly people who are deserving of our compassion

It doesn't have to be either/or though; if the will existed they could target both, provided they already have enough to stand on their own two feet

However Labour won't be unaware of the stats which suggest pensioners are more likely to vote Conservative, which is what I meant about political spite

I do believe it's right to take it away as a automatic payment however using pension credits is too blunt a instrument and they should have introduced a sliding scale (a bit like child benefit).

You already have pensioners who only heat 1 room or not have the heating on which also is not good for a lot of conditions which come with old age such as arthritis. So people get sicker because they are not heating homes scared of high bills which in turn puts more pressure on the NHS.

Bollocks

Source?

How? How do people get medical evidence of conditions they don't have?

They just do, isn't an answer.

My parents won’t be getting the payment but they certainly could use it. I was shocked when I visited recently at the measures they are taking to reduce their outgoings.

I just googled the statistics. 80% of pensioners are homeowners, so in my book that counts as “most”. Much higher percentage than I’d expected, but then literally all the pensioners I know are homeowners, and I know a lot through various volunteering I’ve done.

The new state pension for a single person is £11,502.40 a year (with all sorts of caveats about when you were born, number of years paid in etc) which is well below the national living wage. Pension credit tops up a single person's weekly income to £218.15. This is not a lot of money to live on. Pensioners have to pay rent, council tax, energy bills, food, car costs, insurance, clothes - someone on just the state pension will struggle.

It's true that a lot of pensioners have a lot more than this coming in, but many don't. Means testing it properly would cost more than the cut in the fuel allowance would save, so it's tricky. The way the government has done it means that a lot of people on an income of just under £219 a week will get no help with their fuel bills, and many will deal with this by not heating their homes. Older people are very vulnerable to cold, and some people will die because of this.

That's why there has been a fuss.

Well that's nice for your parents and their friends who don't need the WFA, but many pensioners do, and they will no longer be entitled to it. This is why Age Concern are campaigning and have a petition about this.

I think we all agree that some pensioners don't need it, but the cut off point needs to be higher.

Did you know the conservatives last year cut winter fuel discount from disabled people already . That was said on the radio no big fuss then or when they say let's take benefits from disabled people no massive outcry from the right wingers. I think its cos many if these vore tory

A sensible comment at last on this thread.

My dad was awarded the winter fuel payment. He doesn't need it. He has no mortgage and three pensions. He has more spare money than I do raising three teens.
I believe there should be help for all with fuel bills but means tested.

My mum's friends are angry because they were going to put the payment towards Christmas presents....

Will they qualify for pension credit?