To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

I don't think people on JSA get WFA?

OK folks so we’ve established that some pensioners still pay rent.

Those that do pay rent do so because they have private pensions. Not just that but they’ve sold their homes & given the kids their money. Rather than buy themselves a small flat or bungalow, they’ve took a council property what’s meant for the poor.

Yes we do but why is free childcare handed out to people on high salaries?

As with electricity pricing, why is childcare in the UK the most expensive in Europe (along with vets and dentist charges)

Rip of Britain by any chance?

Office of National Statistics. Actual data, not just personal experience.

I had no idea I wouldn't have to pay rent when I retire in few years time, brilliant news 😜 not so sure my landlady will be happy about it though 🤣

Because there's a middle group who don't get pension credit and will struggle without it. It didn't need to be universal but it's been cut too much.

In Ireland they do. And carers don't.

@virgocatlover so it's ok for the state to subsidise parents ( becoming a parent is a choice) but not pensioners? ( growing old isn't a choice)

@virgocatlover , I can’t help wondering what you would have been posting had the Conservative government proposed this cut? It’s extremely cruel to those who just miss out on receiving it. As it is lots of older people don’t put on their heating and this is a particular problem for the elderly because they are much more susceptible to the cold. But I suppose old people are expensive and not as likely to vote Labour so it seems likely to me that they are expendable to this government.
I think all benefits require reviewing because that is definitely a place where savings can be made and if you expect people to work really hard and lose great swathes of their income in taxation the very least that those of us who contribute to the public coffers should be able to expect is that our hard earned cash isn’t being wasted. They should target the scroungers and freeloaders who languish on incapacity benefits for imaginary illnesses not frail, elderly people who are deserving of our compassion.

It’s doable as long as you’re not paying over 200 quid in council tax like a lot of people are these days as a single person. Another 200 on utility bills. And until your boiler breaks. What about the people on £220 a week that just missed the cut off?

It was the same uproar when they stopped child benefit for higher earners.

its people like us it will affect, we're a low income household, yes my mother owns the house, but she only has her state pension, and the private pension left from my dad when he died to live off, and some savings that are for emergencies, and i'm living on benefits as a carer. We have 3 disabled people in this household.

With the cost of fuel rising, water rising, food rising, we're being squeezed, and have gone from comfortable, to having to decide if we put the heating on. That winter fuel payment was a blessing and worth 2 months gas/electric to us.. now we have to take that out of our budget for other stuff.

We might not be on our knees, but in a 4 person household with 3 disabled adults, one in FT education, one a carer so can't work, and one elderly/ill, its not like we can just magic money out of thin air to cover the deficit of losing the WFP.

Many up in arms that I've encountered don't need the payment, take multiple holidays a year, drink Starbucks coffees 😉and are no doubt partial to avocado on toast.

My aunt and at least one neighbour that I can remember in previous years openly talked about using theirs for things that would be considered a non essential luxury....

I'm worried that the threshold for payments do leave some at risk but there's enough well off pensioners for this to not reasonably be a universal payment.

The thing that does piss me off is that when they were working, lots of the well off pensioners who recievied heating allowance were the same people who bitched and moaned and demonsided people in receipt of benefits who they deemed unworthy.... How the tables have turned.

Yes we do but why is free childcare handed out to people on high salaries?

As far as I know, people who earn over £100k are not entitled to free childcare. So there is a cut off.

Anybody remember the brief flurry of 'why has the DWP announced plans things so that they have the right to check pensioner's bank accounts?' that was answered with a 'oh, it'll just be for single mums not admitting to having partners or cash in hand work'?

It was set up, along with universal credit, to be able to administer means testing and checking on a real time basis for everybody, not just Daily Mail fodder. It was previously a universal benefit and not changed because it was prohibitively expensive to means test. Now, thanks to the conservatives putting the UC and HMRC real time infrastructure (and probably a shitload of money into AI) in place, it's going to save money this way - nobody can say with any honesty that this ability to migrate other benefits such as Winter Fuel onto the system was unintentional.

Even without AI, it's an easy marker to add - if they're entitled to benefit, they qualify for the payment, without it, they don't. Very efficient, already has payment details set up, will update immediately if they become eligible. And not set up in the last ten minutes, specifically planned for over years in creating the entire infrastructure by the government that was voted for at the time.

Could be argued in leopards eating faces terms that not only were they voting for the leopards, they were watching a large scale face eating leopard breeding programme where it was clear that they were intentionally breeding sufficient leopards to need pensioner faces as part of a balanced diet.

I can't remember virtually every news title being in uproar about that. It seemed to go through quite smoothly after a few days of grumbling.

Do you genuinely think that someone with an income of £217 is wealthy? Because that is the income cut off for the WFA allowance now. That’s why there is “uproar”.

My dad has an income of £235 per week. The WFA made a big difference to him. Not sure why you can’t understand that?

Thanks. Unfortunately the ONS data doesn’t help the actual people I know who will be affected. In my personal experience, most of the pensioners I know don’t own their own homes, aren’t entitled to pension credit and will be impacted by the loss of the allowance. I’ve already got them on the best fuel deals.

I think the issue is that people who aren’t entitled to pension credit believe they have worked all their lives to build up a good pension, own their own house etc…. They believe that after years of paying taxes and paying into a pension that they should be entitled to the same as someone who for whatever reason never paid into a pension scheme … it does make me as a younger person think ‘why should I pay loads into a pension scheme only to be taxed on it and penalised in old age?!’

My view is that the 2 child cap of child benefit should remain, no one NEEDS more than 2 children …. Also the £10 ‘bonus’ that everyone gets on benefits at Christmas should be abolished…. £10 is ridiculous and just abolishing that small amount will save millions!….. ALSO LOOPHOLES need dealing with, some one working here should not be able to claim benefit for children living abroad…. I don’t blame people for doing this, they’re entitled to… but that shouldn’t be the case imo.. Also residents of England pay water rates, other parts of the uk do not… we effectively subsidise other parts of the uk, same with prescriptions… this is wrong….
The government should abolish tv licence fees… it’s crazy that the elderly have to pay this … I’ve cancelled mine as have thousands if not millions of other people… I don’t watch live TV so don’t need one, but many others do but that’s another post! pension also shouldn’t be taxed imo!
The other option is for OAP’s to cancel their direct debits and only pay what they can afford… they can’t legally cut off their power because they’re vulnerable… so the debt then either dies with them or comes out of their estate…

Yes 100k, a high salary.

& if you think thats ok, then i'd afraid your OP is nonsense as the cut of for WFP will be about 14% of that.

My opinion would have been the same. I didn't vote Labour btw.

Yes I agree with this. Of course millionaires like Alan Sugar don't need it but I think the cut off is too low. Should have been removed for those paying 40% tax and above.

My mum lives in housing association property and pays an awful lot of rent for a badly built and maintained bungalow. She has a degenerative disease which makes it vital for her to stay warm. The property only has electricity so her heating is expensive. She is really quite worried that she will lose her winter fuel payment. We lost my dad not long ago so she is already living on less money than previously.

I had this conversation with a long standing client of mine. He is not a Labour voter, he’s of pension age, and was complaining about it being got rid of. I said it’s not, it’s just being means tested and I think that’s the right thing to do, there are many, many pensions who are not struggling with fuel poverty and it’s a waste of government funds to pay that. He then said that he didn’t need it (he’s very wealthy) and donated his to the RNLI every year. That’s a very worthy charity but that’s not what those funds are for.

Almost 75% of people over 65 own their home outright. Only 6% privately rent.

What about the rest?