To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

Govt website: "You can get a Winter Fuel Payment for Winter 2024 to 2025 if you were born before 23 September 1958."

There's a bit more about eligibility and benefits but that's the key date.

Get your facts right .

We don't get council tax reduction now.
When did that come into effect?

£218 per week.
How much is your rent? I don't know anyone paying less than £800 per month for rent. How can you afford rent?

sigh Other countries flats have laundry rooms and rubbish chutes on each floor. And air conditioning in some cases. In the UK people who live in flats are expected to dry clothes by osmosis or the power of prayer. No room for a tumble dryer in your poky little sweatbox. Tough! Got a balcony? Nope Cant hang clothes out there either because looks, AND this affects people without children more because we are the ones more likely to be expected to live in them . Do people without kids not need to wear and wash clothes? Nowhere to hang clothes outside, Its a car park. The reason British people hate flats is because no thought to life goes into them We dont have flats unsuited to lifestyle We have flats unsuited to LIFE! Im bloody sick of hearing Brits blamed because they wont accept this or that when usually the thises or thats in the UK are sub standard. Elderly/disabled ppl in Grenfell were living on the 23rd floor! There are loads of blocks of flats still coated in cladding seven years on. You cannot compare flats in other countries which have been built with thought and with human life in mind with the little sweatboxes and the places just built for profit that we have in the UK. Its not British peoples fault that they find this unacceptable.

Yes Its highly likely many will be admitted to hospital, If some haters think they will die quickly at home then they are delusional

Starmer had no say in that pension, went with the job.

Do you think Liz Truss should get her PM's one or not?

As pointed out, vast majority of OAPs aren't impoverished, some are and they get a great deal of help.

TBH posters like you and a few others just make me think this cut is a good one and it should stick.

There is two months difference there. That poster was born in NOVEMBER 1958

Lol!

I doubt very much if the removal of 2 or 3 weeks of energy costs will cause more people to end up in hospital & why would it? chances are, no carers will be looking out for them and should an ambulance be called, they'll die waiting for one.

Deaths will depend on CV & Flu vaccine take up and the severity of the winter.

But many pensioners don’t get £12000 a year. Depending on your age some only get around £8,160. If they have a little savings, just over £10,000 they will get no extra help.

If you're on under 11k, I think you get PC. If you have savings over 16k I think you're exempt. If you have 10k you can afford to heat your home over winter.

I find this thread disgusting. I had my child at 18, worked all my life, get state pension, and occupational pension, which I pay tax on. The wfa helped me and I used it for what it was for, heating, not Xmas presents.
Only on Mumsnet do I find this attitude of resentment to pensioners getting wfa. Alot of you seem to have wealthy in lnlaws, people I know from all walks of life dont resent pensioners this allowance, they want their parents to get it so they put their heating on.
I live in the South East, own my home and it is worth 400k, but it is a small two bed property and I can't downsize even if I wanted too. The money I have is in the property.
The young people I know have no resentment towards their parents getting this allowance.

My sister doesn't work due to 'depression and anxiety'. She goes to the GP regularly and he prescribes antidepressants. She doesn't take them - she doesn't need them. A GP report and her acting skills are enough to get her disability benefits. She just doesn't want to work. She laughs that she's on benefits and is "scamming the government". She doesn't have a hugely luxurious lifestyle but has a 2 week holiday in Spain once, sometimes twice a year. It drives me mad but this is the lifestyle she's chosen.

So she has been signed off work for depression and claims ESA and PIP, presumably. She deserves all the accolades as I can't imagine how difficult it is to go through the assessments and get signed off with depression. People with severe disabilities and illnesses get rejected. And then she jets off on her benefits!

The lower SP is £169.50 max for women born before April 1953 some get less. Even if they have a small amount extra. They are exempt from getting Pension credit. Those who reached pension age after 6th April 2016 get the new larger pension. Getting your Pension calculated and pension credit is quite a complex calculation and is different for individuals depending on contributions and earnings. It is a fixed amount.
As a result there are many pensioners who fall through gaps and are badly off. Spending what little life saving they may have leaves nothing, with no further earning power.

Still don't think they should be supported by the state

Of course she does. It is sooooooooo easy to make a false claim for ESA and PIP.

Do you know what the fraud rate for PIP is?

Thank goodness someone has posted something sensible. I’ve been receiving my state pension for a year - I had no need for WFA as I paid into a work pension for over 40 years so gave it to charity. I was tempted to give it back to the government but decided not to as, unlike a lot on here, I do believe there needs to be a major overhaul of our benefit system. There are poor younger people and poor older people unfortunately. There are also people who use our benefit system to great advantage. We saved before having children, moved out of London to a much cheaper place and commuted in, our furniture came from family cast-offs and second- hand shops, drove old bangers, never had a holiday so I could be a mainly stay at home mum for a couple of years but I did do various work in the evening/weekends. I have been where the younger generation are now so why resent us for easing up a bit and enjoy a few years before we pop our clogs?

@Beebumble2 do you have a source that says they are exempt from pension credit? I've googled and can't find anything that says that.

How is she living a luxury lifestyle on the £300 a month that is PIP?

That isn’t enough to get PIP. We had to send in hoards of evidence. GP prescription wouldn’t have been enough.

Ah, when in doubt slag off a Tory. It’s a magic formula alright. It can lose you belly fat, improve your skin and increase your chances on the premium bonds. At least you didn’t say ‘But Boris…’

If you bothered to read the thread you’d know that I’m a staunch supporter of this welfare cut. But then I’m a Tory and strongly believe we need to cut public spending. Far too many undeserving claimants all round.

Why did Labour oppose cutting WFA with - supposedly - fury nine months ago? Oh, of course, But Rishi… 🙄

It's easier than addressing what Labour are actually doing I suppose.

Starmer isn't doing that well and best to step round that ;

As for WFA these boards were full of demands for extra payment over the last couple of years, which were given. Now it's no extra payment plus remove the WFA, as Labour want to do it I'm guessing.

Sure about that?

Because...

I had this debate with my Dad they other day, he thinks its disgusting he will no longer get the WFA, he lives with my DM in a very large property and they refuse to downsize, they are currently on their second holiday abroad this year so I don't think they should get it at all.
I pointed out to my Dad that there was and still isn't much out cry for all those parents (mainly women) who can't get Child benefit because their partners earn over the threshold but they don't share that with their partners who can't earn or earn as much as they are looking after the kids.
I do think its awful that some are going to be impacted by this who need the money but there has to be a cut off somewhere and its ridiculous the amount of pensioners who don't need it but were still getting it.
There has to be a cut off, but were that should be I don't know.

If you care to read the thread, my quote was debunked numerous times yesterday (and today), and I apologised to the OP.