To not understand the uproar over winter fuel allowance being cut?

[virgocatlover]

It's not being cut. The poorest pensioners on pension credit will still get it. It's only being changed so it's no longer a universal payment anymore.

The energy price cap was £1834 October 2023. This October it's £1717. So it's £117 cheaper than it was last winter for average use.

In April 2024 the state pension rose by 8.5% - a rise of around £900 for those on full state pension. It's expected to rise another £400 next April.

Many energy companies still have schemes for those in genuine need. Plus the warm home discount exists for those on a low income.

I understand pensions who receive just state pension and no other income may be annoyed but there has to be a cut somewhere. But pensioners are unlikely to have the expense of rent/ mortgages in retirement which is the biggest expense to those of working age.

However most of the moans I've heard and seen seem to be from the well off pensioners who are cross about losing something. I know a woman who rents out three houses and spends the winter in the Caribbean who is spitting feathers about losing the payment. Another who spent the money on their Christmas booze.

There is so much uproar about this which didn't happen when there were so many other cuts affecting young people/workers/families. All other benefits are means tested, so should WFA.

People still see pensioners as those who fought in the war and counting pennies at the till to pay for their bread and milk. But that's just not the case these days.

Exactly. I'm a "pensioner" and will be paying rent for the rest of my life - I can't see my landlords telling me not to pay rent anymore just because I have retired.🤔

Genuine question, as I don't live in the UK. Can you opt out of the winter energy payment? Here it is a fortnightly payment for part of the year, paid to anyone on a benefit or receiving national superannuation, but you can opt out if you don't feel you need it.

Actually the ONS figures show it's 79% homeowners, with 74% of those mortgage free. So it works out at around 58% of all over 65s being in their own homes AND mortgage free.

All I'm getting from this thread, as someone who doesn't live in the UK, is how complicated your welfare system seem to be!!! How on earth do people work out what they are entitled to? It sounds very unwieldy to me.

The forms for pension credit have 243 questions to answer, I would have lost the will to live after that lot, that is probably why it is so long.

No, you can't. Many people donate it to charity though

WFP is £200 to £300, dependent on age.

So for someone who feels the cold and is in a poorly insulated house, its about 1 month of heating costs.

People like you are pretending the WFP is a significant contribution towards heating costs, its not, the benefit had to be reformed (along with plenty of others) its not sustainable to pay the well off £200 when they don't need it.

The real issue is energy costs and its very disappointing that tax payer funded benefits are still going into the pockets of energy companies, with Labour not addressing this.

Energy company bosses are still paying themselves anywhere between £1m and £2.5m p.a, these are the companies we pay our energy bills to, the exception being Octopus CEO, who earned a more realistic amount of approx £200k.

You'd make it less affordable for struggling elderly people to heat their homes and also take away their bus passes so they might not be able to reach a safe, warm public place? How very compassionate!

The cut wasn't in the manifesto. Starmer spoke against it earlier in the year. Labours first port of call is the most vulnerable in society, not the richest. UK state pensions are poor. Introduced by a former Labour government. According to their own research 4000 pensioners may die as a result. It's a terrible way to begin their time in government.

Do you have a link to their research please?

Yep political stupidity, saving £800m (net) is not going to sort out the mess the Tories left the country in.

Far easier and lower hanging fruit that would have proved popular.

I think they will lower the pension credit thresholds to compensate, so zero savings.... & more money handed to the energy industry.

TBH i wish i hadn't voted for them... i would have gone LD but voted tactically to get rid of the Tory, so far they've been an utter disappointment.

@MumOfTwoLittleOnes24 Do you feel the same about child benefit for your two little ones? Free nursery hours etc?

It's right of course to stop paying it to wealthy people, but this new idea that pensioners are all wealthy comes as a surprise to me and just about everyone I know.

I do know some people who are better off than me, but with a fixed amount of money which is draining away so that's a bit of an illusion.

Not having to pay rent or a mortgage made me laugh. Mortgage payments doesn't end at retirement age and the way things are going fewer people will have paid it off by then than in the past.

If you can get housing benefit that doesn't pay all your rent. There is a complex system based on average rents in your area and an additional fine if you have a spare room.

I remember when that fine came out and people said "just move to a place with lower rent and fewer rooms". Usually it was someone with 8 bedrooms and a separate wing for the staff.

Bedroom tax doesn't apply to pensioners

The research was carried out in 2017, obviously they were fighting against the Tories cutting

And far more cheating the tax system - (and I do not mean tax avoidance, I mean evasion) - to far greater cost than any cheating of the benefits system. I used to work in benefits offices and the checking of claims with the assumption the claim is wrong and the claimant should get less, is diligent and constant. Overpayments are also zealously chased, whereas if you are underpaid the onus is on the claimant a) to notice and b) to follow it up.

They say HMRC will catch you eventually, and they probably will, but the effort put into chasing the poor for small amounts is baffling greater.

From Labour's own research, reprinted in The Mail: 'Since the introduction of the winter fuel payment by Labour in 1997, allowing for significant variation in winter weather, deaths among the elderly have fallen from around 34,000 to 24,000.
Half of the almost 10,000 decrease in so-called 'excess winter deaths' – the rise in mortality that occurs each winter – between 2000 and 2012 was due to the introduction of the winter fuel allowance.'

You can't. The system is universal, and I support universal benefits since the well-off MUST see some advantage to themselves from putting into the welfare and health pots. It's a good idea, however, to let people opt out if they do not need the money - this should be annual, of course, for who knows what's coming round the corner!

A cynic would say that removing universal fuel payments would save money twice over. Lower outgoings on the allowance and an increase in excess deaths, saving on pensions.

For those just above Pension Credit, the WFA is a significant amount.

For those who are just above PC they will be claiming housing benefit and therefore get the WFA

The main stream media have push the fallacy that its only PC that qualifies and its not

if you are claiming Housing benefit its a means tested. benefit and you can get WFA

It was 14 degrees where I live in the north of Scotland on Friday. Heating clicked on first thing as we have a thermostat and timer. So lucky you living in the south and having no idea how other parts of the country are a lot colder.

27% of pensioners are millionaires,

79% home owners

25% are not home owners, only 5% privately rent and anyone renting is able to claim mens tested benefit - housing benefit if pension age and not living with someone under pension age. On mens texted benefit HB you can claim WFA

why do tax payers want to pay home owners and millionaires a winter fuel allowance?

Good point.

Those 27% who are millionaires will contain a large percentage whose wealth is entirely or mostly in their home (esp if live in London, parts of Cheshire and Derbyshire or the West Country etc). That is non-disposable assets and does not mean they are not hard-pressd for cash. Many may not have family willing/able to help out or be lone women with no nearby relatives. Should they not receive the help for which they have paid taxes and NI all their working lives and also presently (NI dies at 60, tax never dies)?

Then they need to sell their assets and use it rather than taking tax payers money to sustain their life style