Is private at primary actually worth it ?

[nottoruffle]

I'm not here to ruffle feathers at all. I'm trying to decide what to do with my kids and whether private at primary is the thing for our family.

It's bloody expensive.

Is it worth it, is the million dollar question.

What kind of child tends to flourish at this type of school ? Will they be pushed too hard? or will they have more support as there are fewer pupils than in a states school ?

I'm looking at 3-18 co ed schools as I have a boy and a girl.

Any experience welcome.

As lots of people have said, there’s no right or wrong answer. My children go to a prep school and it’s absolutely not perfect but I would still choose it over most (not all) of the local states. It’s non-selective but because of the area (11+) and the comparatively small class sizes, the children are pushed much more academically than in the local states. Likewise, those with extra needs get a lot of support. It’s a very nurturing school with loads of music, extra curricular etc (we’re not talking swimming pools, just lots of celebratory days, school pets, choir performances etc). I actually decided on it when after looking round the schools, a child held open the door and said, ‘Good morning.’ It is around 7000 a year so yes, I do think it’s worth it. That said, I now have multiple children so the fees are more painful now than when we first made that decision!

@nottoruffle

Go to the schools. Talk to the teachers and pupils and head teacher. Get a feel for the school.

Ask what the provisions for SEN are - this is to check that they have processes in place to support the DC and the rest of the class.

Ask how many TAs there are.

My 2DC went to 2 different primary schools - one was 'outstanding', the other 'good'. Personally, I thought the 'good' school was better. Ofsted ratings should not be used in isolation.

Also think about logistics and if they have wraparound care. Is one school easier to get to?

One of the most important aspect of primary education is engaged parents.

It really depends on what is important to you (there’s no right or wrong answer to that) and on what your goal is for secondary.

For me, I looked around the schools and decided based on my values and my experiences of teaching in different types of secondary schools. Effectively, that meant I looked at class sizes, manners, how the staff spoke to the children and their English books (I appreciate I’m at an advantage here as I knew what I was looking for)

It depends on your DC.
I regret not going private for prep. I did for secondary and she is thriving but I think private prep would have picked up on her SEN earlier than state.

It obviously depends on the schools in question, and the child. If you visit the schools your decision should become much clearer.

Our local primary school is not great; it’s tiny, composite classes, disruptive children (several children have left because of it), very little in the way of extras eg they bring in external teachers for PE and they regularly don’t turn up, and safety is lax.

The school our DC go to has: excellent academics despite being non-selective (one DC is top 4% maths at national tests and is in 2nd set maths), specialist teachers for all subjects at age 9 plus, curriculum is broad including Latin, languages, geography, separate sciences, art, drawing, stem, coding, design technology (all specialist subjects in specialist rooms), they play competitive hockey, netball, cricket, tennis, rugby, there is an on-site swimming pool, two libraries, outstanding music provision (the school is known for music)

And most importantly our children are very, very happy. Any issues are dealt with very quickly and the school are able to adapt to the needs of individual children. They have SEN children who are able to be in mainstream education that I really don’t think would be in the state system

I had a truly miserable primary school experience, and it left lasting scars both physical and mental, so for us it is absolutely money well spent.

Define, “worth it” I suppose. Do you mean, Will the difference in their earning potential ultimately outstrip your costs? Do you mean, will they be happier/ have more opportunities/ be better connected socially etc.

Also have you checked the admissions criteria from your council - just check the priority order the criteria is applied.

In our borough, catchment usurps siblings so you have to think about that if you have more than 1 DC and you want them to go to the same school.

The faith school may have different admissions criteria.

Which school do DC in your village attend? One of the village schools or private? A mix?

You have an anecdote for a single data point that bucks a trend. If you don't get that your experience doesn't hold the same weight as large scale research studies then it might be that a bit more education is needed.

This topic has been done to death. But as everyone has said it depends. I would say it is worth it if money isn't tight. Smaller class sizes and individual attention. Any issues with children, social, educational, SEN are sorted immediately. All admin is completely done. Emails to school are responded to within an hour or two. Private is an effortless option where you get the best primary school experience possible, in my opinion. Of course it also depends on the prep, some are hothouses etc that aren't nice but if you get a good one it's worth it - your child will have a tailored experience that will allow them to thrive.

In my experience, it was worth every penny. Having said that, there are some private schools I personally wouldn’t pay for. It’s worth it if you choose a good one.

Our school offered a lovely childhood - huge grounds with forests etc where they could run around. The environment was very different from any of the state schools in our wider area. Above all, the children were happy.

They had opportunities for music and sport which isn’t generally available in the state sector. They did a lot more sport and had competitive matches against other schools. The music especially meant they had an opportunity to perform in lots of concerts (formal and informal), which gives self confidence. They can now stand up and perform/speak etc confidently and with few nerves. Perhaps there are some state schools which offer this but I haven’t come across any personally.

Academically, the classes are smaller which means that every child (even quiet, well behaved ones) get attention. They were set for maths and English which meant that every child learns at their own pace. They were stretched academically and not just allowed to coast along. Another positive is that private schools aren’t burdened with SATs and the narrow curriculum.

As Another76543 said - and also worth every penny in my view. But it depends on choosing well, and not only looking at schools that cater for the whole 3-18 yrs as the original question suggests, because you can't predict what your children will be like at 11 or 13. You would need to decide on whether they will take the CE/scholarship route at 13, or if they will do the 11 plus, because a 3-11 school takes away the choice.

My children went to three different pre-prep/prep schools from 3-13, because the first two in one way or another proved not to be up to scratch, but we reckoned that all of them had multiple advantages over all of the state alternatives (ranked as "outstanding", for what that's worth).

Forget class size although (unlike for secondary education for which there is no evidence) there is some evidence that class size is important at this stage, and forget social cachet and all that sort of nonsense. What you should get is:

Subject-specific teachers with degrees in those subjects from decent universities. The school should list its teachers and their qualifications in its promotional literature and a few MPhil/PhD/DPhils in the right subjects is a good sign. This was the first filter that we applied when shortlisting schools.

Latin and ideally Greek. This is evidence that the school governors/head are prepared to invest in subjects that have great educational value, even though some parents might not regard them as essential.

A long school day. Rather than clocking-off in the middle of the afternoon there should be an 8.30 to 5.30 or 9 to 6 school day with competitive team sports every afternoon on the school's own on-site grass pitches. There should be match reports in their promotional literature to give you an idea of the ethos of the school, matches played against similar independent schools involving some travelling, and there should be no matches against local clubs - because they won't be good enough - if the school is doing it properly.

The extracurricular stuff is a given.

A list of leavers' achievements in scholarship exams and future schools.

The benefits of a good prep school are lifelong, and probably greater than from secondary education, which is much shorter and too late: "Give me a child until he is 7 and I will show you the man."

I forgot to say that it is important that there should be an equal proportion of male teachers.

I would be interested to know why you have such a biased view. It's extremely inaccurate.

I would just like to add here that being say, an Oxford or Cambridge qualified mathematician, doesn't make them a good teacher.
If you want to know about a school, ask the parents (ignore the snobbery element, most private school parents are doing what they perceive to be the best they can for their children) and ask the children. Of course, look at results but a child's happiness is paramount.

@ChristmasCwtch apologies for the late reply, but I’d be interested in your experience of moving DC in to prep. I’m thinking of doing this for my DS for year 2; he’s at an outstanding primary in a very nice area (no grammars nearby) but we’re underwhelmed with the state primary and his teacher has changed halfway through the year. Could you say anymore about what you’ve found the prep to be like and if your DC were affected by the move?

For us yes, children in private since reception. Smaller classes, already doing 11 plus level work 2 years earlier, great pastoral care. However those it really seems to benefit are those with SEN. 1/3 of the class have these and they get a lot of attention. I think they would be lost in a larger state school. Mine haven't got SEN issues so sometimes I do feel the balance of attention isn't fair but on the whole, it's worked out for us.

In genral I think it has zero impact on final outcome ie. Where they end up at 16, unless your child needs A LOT of extra support and just wouldn’t cope in a state primary but even then paying for a prep isnt a magic wand and if you put the work in with your child they will thrive anyway

round here, a sort of semi rural collection of large villages ,the private prep which is small and not ‘that’ expensive, gets thrashed at sport weekly by high achieving local primary schools which have amazing sports teams, kids on national teams, playing for man city etc, full of really confident outgoing kids. the state schools also have forest schools, do loads of trips etc. even my DD’s when in nursery had chickens,goats, a nursery therapy dog, went horse riding and swimming on a minibus for a minimal fee. That’s a state school. The kids are outside loads and have an idyllic education tbh and it’s free. But I’m aware not all choices are like this and it just depends where you live however I’d never stay in a shitty area with bad schools and spend money on private prep i’d just move to a better area with better primaries. Secondary is a bit different

See my dd is in a year group of 23 kids, and the money we aren’t spending we did 11+ tutoring since y4 with an amazing 1-1 and this is a state school . My friends son has just left a catholic village primary in a class of 18 with literally one point lower than highest possible score in his 11+ if kids are going to do well on 11+ it will happen despite the school they’re in as that’s sort of the point of the 11+
dd is in y10 at mixed grammar and there is no difference between her and those who went to private primary preps, in fact a lot of them struggled socially

Clocking off in the middle of the afternoon 👌😂 this post has tickled me. Tell me what sports your kids played nationally at then or what academies they were signed to? If kids are elite at sport they’re not fucking about on their school teams til 6pm no matter how posh the school is, they’re leaving school early to go training with proper teams

Your comment is profoundly ill-informed. Football is the only sport that is as you have described, and I think the only professional sport in which privately educated players are underrepresented. For the obvious reason that many private schools (and parents) don't value it. It wasn't available to my children until they were thirteen, by then they were invested in other sports which they played at school against age-specific county sides, and later for their Oxford colleges.

Rugby, hockey, cricket, fives, rowing, polo, swimming, cross-country running, and tennis are some of the other sports that you might want to bear in mind. Private schools (and universities) are effective routes to elite competition in these. Footballers don't go to university.

"Across a variety of school sports, it has been found that 53% of national school competitions were won by state schools and 46% by independent schools, despite 86% of competing schools coming from the state sector."

www.suttontrust.com/our-research/elitist-britain-2019/

Is it an automatic run through from primary to secondary? If the secondary school is your ultimate aim then it may be worth it. My DC are at run through schools and the 11+ is fierce - however, we avoided all the stress by starting in the primary with a guaranteed place in the secondary.
In the primary they did lots of sports and music clubs, none of which were available at our local primary and was important for us. We, as parents, would not have had the time to take them to the various sports and music clubs to give them the breadth of opportunity that the school gave. So for us it was worth it for a happy and stress free childhood.*

*not saying that this is not achievable in the state sector, rather if a particular private secondary is the aim.

You’re right about football, it’s not stuck up enough or elitist enough for prep schools but I do enjoy watching my nephews team of peasant like comprehensive school students absolutely thrash the local prep at it to the point the kids are crying. Apart from cricket and rugby and potentially swimming, the other sports aren’t even worth mentioning because they’re hobbies at best, or just something posh kids compete against each other in a selected bubble. And often with cricket and rugby, students are selected to attend schools on scholarships and their talent in these sports has nothing to do with the school itself. Look at Adnan, on Freddie Flintoff’s ‘Field of Dreams’ for example, he only attends Stonyhurst because he’s good at cricket, I also know several kids at boarding school picked from their lowly primaries due to their rugby abilities, most schools brag about their sporting prowess but the best kids are on full scholarships and arrived at the school already elite level

Sorry I posted on wrong thread @pleasedeleteit can you help?

I agree with you, my DD was similar to your DS, the shy type, so in state primary among 60 kids she was like a needle in a haystack and only mingled with close mates, her strengths were not nurtured as too many kids to focus on. She also was not motivated and attitude to work was low, only wanted to play. I think state is good for reception till year 2 when they are new and adapting to the school system from nursery there is a lot of playtime. But from year 3 (KS2), they need a solid foundation in my opinion. I just moved my DD to private in year 3 and I am seeing a whole different person, a positive shift in attitude towards very positive, when she comes home she wants to do homework, I do not need to ask her. I see her confidence growing too.