Is private at primary actually worth it ?

[nottoruffle]

I'm not here to ruffle feathers at all. I'm trying to decide what to do with my kids and whether private at primary is the thing for our family.

It's bloody expensive.

Is it worth it, is the million dollar question.

What kind of child tends to flourish at this type of school ? Will they be pushed too hard? or will they have more support as there are fewer pupils than in a states school ?

I'm looking at 3-18 co ed schools as I have a boy and a girl.

Any experience welcome.

My son was failing in state primary and they didn't have the resources or the desire to help him catch up (reason for being behind was medical) . Had no choice but to move him to private and he has flourished and pretty much caught up in 2 years

Lots of lovely extras: forest school, cooking, ballet, spanish, trampolining, coding, hot chocolate or ice cream on fridays, school animals.

Meanwhile our very normal small village primary (state) has forest school, cooking, gymnastics & dance, Spanish, coding, choirs & music groups, chess, various sports clubs, ice cream at lunch.....

State schools aren't like borstals 😂

Sometimes yes. The most sought after private high school near us is really hard to get into at high school years. If you think your child won’t perform at top level in all tests then you really need them to be at their primary school for automatic acceptance. The kids that don’t go to their primary have to have tutors and study hard for their secondary entrance exams as well as being high achieving.

Doesn't this fly in the face of the research about the importance of the earlier years in setting up our relationship to ourselves? Isn't it those formative experiences that are going to teach us to be curious, make mistakes and have self compassion?

Surely it's better to start in a school that you thrive in, whichever that might be, rather than try to correct damage done later.

Small classes (1 teacher - 10 students)
Average grades children being overlooked ("the invisible middle") to focus on the children who need more attention in state
Able to speak the teacher directly face to face anytime
Being taught 1 year ahead is. Y2 with Y3 attainment
Having good manners
Children feeling noticed, important, valued
Any challenges in child seen as opportunities
Confidence building
With like minded parents
Opportunities to do unusual sports like fencing
Good facilities as standard
Excellent lunches

We have experience of state primary and private prep and I think it really depends what you prioritise. The state system is primarily focussed on Maths & English as there is a great deal of pressure on schools to perform well in SATS. The knock on of this is that sport isn’t a big feature in the timetable, though you can do after school clubs. It is a big more of a sausage factory, if you’re clever you’ll be fine but children were put in sets for reading on day 1 in Reception and it’s hard to move up. Private schools seem to be more holistic & offer subjects like forest school, lots of sport and different opportunities in music and drama. They also have smaller class sizes and have potential to be more nurturing as they teach the ‘whole person’ and the teacher has more time to address individual concerns. I think they are fortunate not to have the same government expectations so can set their own agenda. I don’t think every private school is better than every state school but there probably will be things that are better because that’s what you’re paying for. You need to visit both and see what you think, I think that’s how you crystallise what is important to you.

All of the above except small classes (although 1 teacher 1 TA in reception) and excellent food/facilities at the state school we use. Archery available as a club from Y1 and my son is working about a year ahead in maths and English in differentiated groups. RC primary in affluent area so parents are to a certain extent self selected by church.

Not all state schools are the same and neither are all private schools but do look around. I think a lot of the things colleagues say are standard in their private schools as extra can be standard in the state system.

OP, I'm a former state school teacher, it I could afford it, mine would have gone to private school at primary. Those saying it's 'not worth it' are being facetious at best, ignorant at worst. My state primary was massively underfunded, oversubscribed, stress levels were through the roof (one of the reasons I left and didn't go back) and the expectations on staff to do EVERYTHING, meant that most of us didn't have the energy to put our enthusiasm into teaching. I have a friend whose children are at a private primary- they're calm, confident, have zero gaps in their learning, etc. her son has adhd and is thriving. I'd say if you can afford it, go for it. Private primary gives children a good start and readiness for secondary.

Ignoring the educational outcomes for a moment, what are youndoing at secondary school?

My daughter has a two very close friends she has had since nursery and all 3 are going to the same secondary school.

I know if she went somewhere else it would be OK, people move schools all.the time, but if you can afford both, it would make sense to do it to make DC more comfortable IMO.

As many PP have said I can only speak from our own experiences. And private school has been the best for my daughter, as she has attended international school were it was English and local language. We have just moved again and her new private school is exceptional and the results speak for themselves.

All the teachers are engaged and small class sized of 1.10 and 1.4 for languages. They are also work to support her skills such as music, maths and drawing and have the time to see her as an individual. It is an IB school so is an educational philosophy that I prefer. We are very happy with our decision to send her private from her first year of school, she loves school and is confident and happy child.

@nottoruffle I went to state for a year then private age 6. Obviously I was very young so my memory is hazy but I do remember going to the private school and being in awe. Loads of trees, masses of woodland to play in, huge resources and small classes. It just felt different. Obviously it depends what sort of private school it is.

I am not sure it was ‘worth it’ as such. I would have been ok not going. And I don’t think I got any particular benefit other than a luxurious day at school 😂

I was in private then the whole way through and I would say by around age 8-9 when kids start behaving differently… I.e. those that are going to be troublemakers really start to show, it was a huge benefit to be in private. Obviously there’s bullies and troublemakers and disruptive kids in private too, but it’s managed much much better (generally speaking) than in the state.

In summary I don’t think waiting until 8 or 9 would have any material impact on your child. But it’s certainly a nice to have before age 8 and if money isn’t really a factor then why not!

@nottoruffle and @Moonshine5 ’s post actually sums up my whole experience and my parents’ experience of using the private sector. You can actually talk to teachers and there is proper investment in your child. Though again, query the requirement for it prior to 8/9. It is fab though!

My DC attended two private primaries. The first IMO was good, it seemed quite nurturing and fun. Can’t compare to local state schools because other than looking round we didn’t use them, so can only observe the obvious of smaller classes, more resources, staff etc.

The second (a popular, well resourced, large school) was mainly focused on academics / getting to selective secondary standards. IMO there was very little fun. Some teachers were often grumpy with the DC. They’d tell DC off in front of the others etc. My DC were fearful of this and getting into trouble. If I could go back would not choose that school.

My DC made friends and didn’t experience bullying, which is good.

Both schools had many rules and expected ‘above age’ behaviour around things like sitting, being quiet, compliance, study etc. That would be difficult for some DC that don’t ‘fit in’ with all that.

Some of the basic teaching at private primaries can be poor - their ability to teach phonics etc can be well behind a good state school. And the evidence for effect of class size on outcomes is very weak, IIRC.

That said, I think most state primaries suffer from having to sort out the effects of chaotic family lives.

I absolutely wouldn’t stretch myself to pay for private primary but if money were no object I might consider it. We went for a state primary on our doorstep and the community aspect and zero commute to school was amazing.

Yes, for us it definitely was. DDs went to a 4-18 through school, which was selective with an easy play date assessment at age 3. It meant they were able to avoid assessments at 11+ for the competitive senior school, which would have been far more demanding and stressful. There's no intake at 8 or 9 so waiting until then would depend on an occasional place coming up, which is rare and requires a formal exam.
At primary the facilities and specialist teaching were amazing, with lots of extracurriculars, trips and individual attention (class sizes 12-15 at pre-prep). It was also a pleasant experience as a parent, with all families very engaged, easy communication and parent events held at times to suit working parents.

For us we lived near an outstanding primary with good results, but it was still streets ahead in the private. Financially we didn't have to make sacrifices and DDs will still get support with uni costs, travelling, house deposit etc.

First of all what are your local state primaries like?
In my area, they are superb. Unless your DC has some kind of SEN that only private schools can accommodate, then it literally would be a waste of money.

HOWEVER, when we first moved to this area, my eldest was allocated the worst primary school in the district as all the local superb schools were full. He was there for a year before a place became available - we were at the point of sending him to a private school.

You need to assess your local primary schools and actively discount them before asking 'are private primary schools worth it?'

We decided to pay for private after visting our local schools. The class sizes were around 30 and the environment seemed loud and chaotic with the TA focused on several SEN children.

In contrast the private school had class sizes of 10 with a peer group of 20 (with 2 classes brought together for PE and other activities). I know my son would not have coped in the local school, he hated the noise at pre school and really needs a quieter environment to focus.

Around here a factor is indeed private primary to get entry to the secondary for year 7 (age 11) with a much lower ‘bar’ to the than taking the entry exams in year 6. (‘all through’ schools or ‘feeder’ primaries)

I personally wouldn’t pay private for primary. I am not sure I would for secondary either if I was in an area with good schools. My DD just left her state school with all 9’s at GCSE. Always in state, never had a tutor. I might think differently if the only option was a poor performing school

Depends on what the state school provision is and your child. The biggest thing I think is that once to have them in private it's a difficult decision to move them to state. You do tend to get a bit caught up in it all.

Anyway my advice would be if you are going state for secondary go state primary. If going private secondary you could do either but if money is tight go state. When estimating fees factor in that within a couple of years the full VAT will be in place and rises of 5% + are the norm.

This - it’s mainly the extra-curricular things as above in the early years.
You could definitely sort most of them out yourself privately for far far less than £15-25k per year.

Having worked in a primary school - if your local primary is nice enough - send your children there and pay for extra tutoring each week - you’d be amazed at what an hour or so a week of one on one education will do for your child at this age. Then save what you would have spent ready for private secondary or future house deposit for them.

Are the behaviour issues any better in a private primary? My DS went to the local primary and then still managed to get into a good grammar school.

He didn't love primary and was subject to teasing and was beaten up a few times.

There are two local primaries in my village ( london / Home Counties border ).

One has a good rating and the other has an outstanding rating.

Then there's a catholic school nearby which has a good rating but an outstanding rating in quite a few areas.

Is that what one looks for when making a decision if it's a good primary school or not ?

What else should I look at, apart from the ofsted reports ?

We chose to live in an area with an outstanding rated state school. It is a posh village and it has cost us a lot to buy a house here. Having said that most ppl try to get their kids into the state school in our area as it is rated better than the private school. We live in an area with many professional footballers etc. and their kids go to the state school.

Regarding kids that thrive in private school, if you have children who would benefit from one on one attention to learn then move them to private school. At the end of every school year we have had a few kids move to the private school and all of them have been those struggling at school. The class size is 30 approx at state school but much smaller class sizes like 20 at the private school and a lot more staff. Personally our older child is very bright and doing very well at school so we have no intention of moving her into private in primary but will definitely consider it in secondary. We can afford to send her currently but do not think it is required. Our second child is just joining reception so we will have to see how he fairs, but his vocabulary, grammar and math is far ahead for his age so we see no reason currently.