To have not known what to do or say to a woman being treated like dirt by her partner in a restaurant.

[Greentea5cups]

Name changed because I'll give details.

City centre, romantic restaurant it's a small place with only around 6 tables. I am in the window area at a 2 seater table with one other two seater right next to us.

Me and partner joke around a bit order food and relatively happy. I noticed he's stopped making conversation and so him if he's okay. He sends me a text descreetly saying the man on the table next to us is being abusive to his wife/partner.

I try to listen but only catch bits. He puts her down about a new job which she was excited about. Tells her she isn't ready and can't do it. He's slurring and a bit drunk. She calmly asks him if he's jealous and he says 'you can put that fucking idea to bed right now'. I can't hear well and sort of try to go back to what we are talking about but then the man throws a huge tantrum and starts refusing to pay. She ends up paying. He makes more rude comments. She politely thanks the waitress, she looks pissed off. He refuses to move. She says 'shall we go then' after a few more minutes and he just sits there, he says 'stop telling me what to do'.

She ends up going to the bathroom and my partner says maybe I should follow and ask if she's okay but the restaurant is so small it only has a single cubicle toilet so not an option. When she comes back after a few minutes he still doesn't want to move. Eventually he seems to deem this round of punishment over and allows them to leave. My partner tells me more stuff he's overheard him saying, all in a similar ilk.

I was quite shocked at this behaviour in public and my stomach turned at the thought of her having to go home with the nasty old prick. I guess this more a wwyd? Would you have said something? If so what? I'm usually quite outspoken but it didn't feel like my place and I didn't want to cause a scene in the restaurant, or make him angrier and it makes things much harder for her or even dangerous as she's got to back with him.

What a stupid comment. Being strong and capable doesn’t stop you from being a victim of abuse and being abused doesn’t mean you’re not strong and capable.

Are you seriously suggesting that the incident the OP witnessed was the first time he’d behaved that way and up until that point he’d been a lovely partner?

Unfortunately, these scenarios are very coming and on average it takes a woman 7 attempts to leave.

I think it’s right to react to the situation in front of you and not some imagined scenario where this has never happened before and she’s about to dump him in the car park.

It sounds like she was sticking up for herself, accusing him of being jealous. I don't think she'd do that if she was terrified of him. Hopefully she'll leave him very soon.

There's nothing you can do. My mum's alchoholic DH would speak to her like that, and in public. She adored him and wouldn't hear a word against him. He did loads of stuff for her and ran round after her, and she seemed to accept his vileness as a pay off. He was vile to her daughters too, but she would always take his side. Thankfully he's finally drunk himself to death.
Honestly, there is nothing you can do, some women have shitty husbands/partners and that is their right to choose.

I've been the woman in that position. The only thing that helped me, in hindsight, was the looks of sympathy I got often.

Or maybe, if someone had just said, you don't have to live like this.

For me, it was the drip, drip, somethings not right, that I eventually saw the light.

I was in a bad situation though, years of it and was broken.

This happened to me last Saturday. In a pub after a meal waiting on a taxi. The man at the bar and his partner were v drunk but he was awful to her, what made it worse was they seemed to know a lot of people there and so more often than not there were others hearing him and still joking around with them as he continually put him down. It was so bad (all done in a joking manner, haha she's knows I'm joking kind of thing) that the lovely couple next to us leaned over and said have you heard that prick?? Our taxi arrived and I couldn't bare it any longer as he said to his assembled crowd 'she knows she punching with me because I'm younger) so as I left I stopped and I said to him, she isn't punching YOU ARE, she looks ten years younger than you and you're an obnoxious pig, you couldn't pay me to spend time in your company! Without a word of a lie the three tables that were closest to us/them actually cheered and then I flounced (ran just about) out of the pub. I hope she realises her worth and I hope I put him in his place

My ex was very quietly emotionally abusive. Put downs, gaslighting kinda thing. He'd occasionally do it in public. But not often as he was fixated on his image and being mr funny nice guy. But we went to a works party once and we were dancing, having a good time when ex suddenly started calling me a slag in front of everyone. I walked away and he followed me calling me names and someone intervened. I was already mortified and just wanted to get away and back to our hotel. It really just made him more angry and he gave me the silent treatment for weeks after. The drive home the next morning was terrifying as he used to like to drive dangerously to intimidate me.

Personally if it had been possible I'd have followed her to the toilet to see if she was ok but I wouldn't have said anything to make her partner have an excuse to hurt her more.

I can relate to this. I now just check with the woman if she is OK. She always says she is.

I probably would have congratulated her on her new job and tell her 'you've got this' as they were on the way out. But in these situations you have to read the room as it could infuriate the guy and she might pay for it when she gets home.

This happened to me once and I did manage to follow the woman to the toilets and speak to her, I gave her my number (we were on holiday and so were they, I wanted her to know she could come back to our apartment for the night as she was due to fly out the next day anyway) and a hug, and she did text me later on to say he'd continued to behave badly and the hotel had called the police so he spent the night in jail. We exchanged messages for a few more days so I know she got home safely and went to her mums.

I have always felt bad that I didn't follow up with her a few weeks later to see if she'd had the courage to leave him for good. She was only young and it was just awful to hear the terrible things he said to her while she sat with tears pouring down her cheeks. It's made me cry again just thinking of her.

My partner did say a strong "ey!" to the guy when he raised his voice at one point, and when the woman came back from the toilet he made a point of asking her if she was okay. However, it is a really hard call because the guy was very drunk and being in a different country we weren't quite sure what options we had to get help (if it had been the UK I'd have asked the bar staff to contact the police I think). I think we just wanted both of them to know we werent okay with what was happening, at the very least.

OP, I'm not sure there's always an easy answer in these scenarios and a single cubicle toilet does make things harder. You do also worry about the risk that you inflame the situation further.

Everyone is talking about the women involved being supportive. Maybe Ops partner could have told the abuser to pack it in because he was being out of order. He heard what was being said.

Exactly, I read the whole thread to see if anyone had suggested this. He could have spoken up while the woman was at the toilet.

I was physically assaulted on a busy beach by my ex bf a long time ago, I was v young, prob 18/19. The only people to intervene and help were a pair of women in their 40s/50s. I was so grateful.

So your partner sat there saying nothing whilst the man right next to him verbally abused this women? Why would it be up to you to do something? Why didn't he call him out? Not saying it's always the best thing as it can end up escalating things for the victim BUT until men start calling out abusive men, loudly and publicly nothing will ever change. Why would it when they're getting away with it, even in public with other men around.

Having done a safeguarding course I found out that whilst previously my instinct was to charge in and intervene (and I have done) doing so could make the situation worse for the person under attack. If not then later. The right thing to do if memory serves is to contact someone in authority if it gets to a point where the other person is in danger, e.g call the police if someone was being physically attacked. I don't think this situation sounds like it got to that point so I'd have stick to sympathetic looks or a quiet word with her but even that can be risky as like others have said you could be told to fuck off or end up ganged up on. Some couple dynamics are volatile and yes it is horrible to witness.

You decided not to intervene because of your safety but expect men to compromise their safety? Why? These men are somebody’s father, brother, son, husband, not just random NPC’s in a computer game.

You could equally say women were enabling his violence towards their own sex!

I doubt there was anything you could have done to help. It's also dangerous to help in an altercation, you'd be best of calling the police and filming it for evidence.

I sympathise, it's awful to hear someone being abused. I saw a little boy being dragged along the pavement by an angry woman who pushed him into the car and though I did say something, I often wonder how that little boy is.

When you intervene and the woman turns on you - what else do you expect? If they are together, it's not safe for her to do anything but try to placate him. She's petrified that you will say something to further enrage him / you will come to harm / she will pay for attracting your attention. Her safest strategy is to turn on you. Expect it and understand why instead of judging. Even better - if possible and as many others have said - approach her when she is alone. I have never had a woman 'turn' on me when I can do this. At worst they don't want anyone to interfere - again - a safety strategy.

I have intervened multiple times over the years - and I know that this is one way in which I can use my race (white) and sex (female) privilege and the worst i have ever gotten is verbal pushback from the man. I do not expect DH to intervene similarly - it ups the ante (in the abuser's eyes) and is far more dangerous.

One strategy which can sometimes work is to distract him although its difficult to see how this would have been possible in the OPs situation.

Sadly I did know a man who intervened in a situation like this on a night out. He came off the worst, hospitalised and lost money through not working. As for the woman he never saw her again.

The man who intervened still suffers health problems from intervening.

So maybe the men didn't intervene for the same reasons as you. Not all men are good fighters.

I read on MN once about a woman who’d been on a train suffering similar and she was handed a note by another woman to say “you deserve better”. Apparently it was the turning point and she eventually found the courage to dump him and never look back.

My DH will purposely not intervene (unless it was an urgent/dangerous situation), as he says men like this are just looking for a fight and if he said something it would just escalate the situation, which I think is accurate in most situations.

So hard to witness this and be paralysed about our actions.
My only thought was to write down as much about the account as you can. Place, time, date and what you overheard/witnessed. Also descriptions of the 2 people.
Not sure that you can take it to the police but it is there if needed in the future.......

Op - I found myself in a similar situation, and I DID go to the toilet after the woman. I told her she could do better than someone swearing at her at her table. Long story short - She left in an Uber to a friends house and I went back and told Prince Charming that his GF had left.

They weren’t living together thank god.
A week later I get a text from her saying thanks and that she needed someone from the outside telling her he was out of order to see what was going on- she’d hidden his nastiness from friends/family because he could be very charming around them and seem like a nice, successful guy.
I would say - if you can step in, safely, do it EVERY time.

I also saw what looked like a guy roughing his girl up in the street, or maybe it was drunken horse play, and I ask her if She was okay- he’s says yes we’re messing so I ask her again ignoring him and it was all fine. They were just being daft.
But again as they walked off she came running back and said thank you though, thank you for checking.

Always ask, always check. Too many of us turn a blind eye.

I was in Weatherspoons and a man was being verbally aggressive to the woman with him. She had a baby in a pram. From what I heard they were not together, but she'd brought the baby to see him.
He was getting louder and more obnoxious, she was staying calm at first but then started crying.
I asked her if she needed any help, he told me to fuck off and mind my own business.
I said he'd made it my business when he was shouting while I was trying to eat a meal in peace.
He complained to the staff and it was me that was asked to leave for causing trouble FFS!

As a child who was in a DV family growing up - the last thing you want is people stepping in. Whenever my step dad behaved like this in public we all just wanted to get home with as little fuss as possible & try to diffuse things. If he felt someone had slighted him or spoken badly of him in public it was 10 times worse when we got home. I'm not sure if anyone ever took my mum aside privately but he would have had eyes on her at all times. Plenty of people knew, strangers and friends but there was nothing they could do. The choice has to be the woman's to make.

Was just about to say the same. Me and my ex tried to help a woman being dragged through a city centre by her partner. He had her by the wrist and was calling her every name under the sun. She looked terrified and was crying her eyes out - it made us feel sick. When we approached to try and help her, we got abuse off both of them, the bloke started squaring up to my ex (who was pretty tough but wouldn't have had a street fight in the middle of the day!) and she was yelling at us to mind our own fucking business.

I've never interfered again after that.