To have not known what to do or say to a woman being treated like dirt by her partner in a restaurant.

[Greentea5cups]

Name changed because I'll give details.

City centre, romantic restaurant it's a small place with only around 6 tables. I am in the window area at a 2 seater table with one other two seater right next to us.

Me and partner joke around a bit order food and relatively happy. I noticed he's stopped making conversation and so him if he's okay. He sends me a text descreetly saying the man on the table next to us is being abusive to his wife/partner.

I try to listen but only catch bits. He puts her down about a new job which she was excited about. Tells her she isn't ready and can't do it. He's slurring and a bit drunk. She calmly asks him if he's jealous and he says 'you can put that fucking idea to bed right now'. I can't hear well and sort of try to go back to what we are talking about but then the man throws a huge tantrum and starts refusing to pay. She ends up paying. He makes more rude comments. She politely thanks the waitress, she looks pissed off. He refuses to move. She says 'shall we go then' after a few more minutes and he just sits there, he says 'stop telling me what to do'.

She ends up going to the bathroom and my partner says maybe I should follow and ask if she's okay but the restaurant is so small it only has a single cubicle toilet so not an option. When she comes back after a few minutes he still doesn't want to move. Eventually he seems to deem this round of punishment over and allows them to leave. My partner tells me more stuff he's overheard him saying, all in a similar ilk.

I was quite shocked at this behaviour in public and my stomach turned at the thought of her having to go home with the nasty old prick. I guess this more a wwyd? Would you have said something? If so what? I'm usually quite outspoken but it didn't feel like my place and I didn't want to cause a scene in the restaurant, or make him angrier and it makes things much harder for her or even dangerous as she's got to back with him.

Ugh, how disgusting. The urge to do something in situations like this can be strong. But I don't think there is anything you could have done. You are a stranger to this woman. Let's hope she has a friend to whom she can talk and find a way to change her life.

I would like to think I'd have followed her to the toilet and asked if she was OK/offer to pretend I was asking for sanpro or help with some makeup or something as cover for the conversation.

She might only have said she was OK but I think it helps to know other people are noticing and willing to help when she's ready.

But it's easy to be wise after the event

We were once staying at a hotel,and a woman was crying while her husband was ignoring her. I didn't know what to do.i don't think u could have done anything really. If you had said something he could have become worse. Let's hope she bins the bustard ASAP.. sounds grim

I’ve stepped in before only to have both the man and the female ‘victim’ both turn on me, sadly

I've stepped in several times, all to no avail.

There would have been no immediate reward for stepping in of course! The immediate visible consequences of our actions don't tell us anything about whether what we did was the right thing or not. You have to take that out of the equation. I don't recommend publicly confronting an abuser but do something privately to support the victim as that's always got to be better than turning a blind eye and giving the message it's OK to be treated like that.

I would have followed her to the toilet after a couple of minutes, waited outside fumbling around in my bag etc and then just quietly said my husband heard her husband's comments and she shouldn't be treated like that.

Totally unrealistic to expect someone to thank you as they're likely to be defensive (right then and there) and probably tell you mind your own business. BUT on the way home, when crying alone in the toilet later, or doing the school run, the validation that it is not acceptable to be spoken to like that might be enough to prompt that first call to woman's aid.

It's a tough one. Had this myself; I was in a restaurant and the guy in the adjacent booth was shoving his crying female companion and pushing her down on the banquette. That was in 1988 and I still wish I'd intervened and taken her to join my group. (Then warned the guy about legal action if he laid a hand on me or her.)

It pisses me off that "a domestic" (as police called them when I was growing up), even in public, is not treated as seriously as an assault by one man against another. Perhaps it's time we as a MN collective devised an action guide for these situations.

make him angrier and it makes things much harder for her or even dangerous as she's got to back with him.

That’s what would have stopped me doing anything overtly.

There’s not really much you can do.

stepping in is likely to have made things worse for her. It’s unlikely she would have chose that moment to leave him. So she would have still ended up alone with him at home.

As pp say, it’s also a risk that she turns on you as well as him turning on you and you are putting yourself at risk. My exh once stepped in when a man had his wife by the scruff of the neck outside his restaurant. It ended up in a scuffle between my exh, the man and then the wife started to kick my exh. I ended up out there restraining her and other customers came out to help exh and the police were called but was a nightmare.

It’s awful to witness. But often doing something could make it worse.

Why do you think she was necessarily not handling it? Just because he’s a bully doesn’t necessarily make her a victim. She might absolutely have his measure and be dumping him in the car park 10 minutes later.
Maybe she’s a strong capable woman who can absolutely handle her wanker of a partner. Why does she have to be a victim just because she’s female?

Exactly this. Intervening can put her at further risk.

That’s awful. I’d have followed to the toilet I think, as there still would have been a chance to say are you ok discreetly. It’s so hard in the moment though to know what to do and sometimes intervening and the abuser notices can kick it off more. All toilets should have those posters saying speak to speak if feel unsafe / ask for Angela etc

My brother was in the police for about 20 years, I herd him use that term just before he retired.

OP

You would have probably made things worse for that evening, I hope the new job she has lets her get away from the prick.

I think in a similar situation you going to the toilet to check on her and your partner telling bloke that he is out of order, he has brought his partner out for a romantic meal and if he wanted to see a performance he would go to the theatre.

I know that is a risk because abusers will abuse and it might put your partner in harms way and make it worse for the woman but men need to start calling out other men.

Having been the woman in a similar situation (a long time ago), I don’t think there was anything you could realistically have done. You couldn’t be alone with her. She must have been aware that other people were witnessing the scene and that made her feel worse.

She knows she is with an abusive POS. Possibly an alcoholic (behaviour sounds very familiar). For whatever reason she couldn’t just leave the restaurant or the relationship. Let’s hope she has the support network to leave.

I was walking through town once, at lunchtime, busy streets, when a man started shouting at the woman he was with.

A few people noticed and looked/watched, he was being foul to her.

Then he punched her, a proper pull-back, swing of a punch, to her face.

No one did anything. The men around all hurried by, while a few of us women stood in shock - I caught the eye of another woman who had seen and we both indicated to our phones, we both called the police.

I decided not to intervene because 1) my safety 2) the victim's safety, often with abusers they'll blame their victim for the unwanted reactions

I was amazed no men got involved though. None at all came to help, so I felt like this violent man was just enabled by them.

But why should men be expected to put themselves in a potentially dangerous situation and for the same reasons you said it can make it worse for the victim.

For all you know the bloke could have had a knife and tried to stab anyone who intervenes. Calling the police was the right thing to do. It is so hard now a day's as many people are scared of the violence escalating even more whether you are man or woman!

The problem is that when an abusive bloke is fuelled with rage and alcohol he could well take it out on the person who steps in and in turn even worse on the victim when they get home.

I remember Henry Cooper (the boxer) saying he intervened when a bloke had his wife at the throat. She told him to mind his own business!

Also you cannot guarantee that all the blokes going past are decent. They may be like that as well!

Could you put a message on your local Facebook group, vaguely outlining the situation that you witnessed ( just say your were in a small city centre restaurant last night, rather than actually naming the restaurant) and putting a link to Women's Aid in the hope that the woman may see it? You can express your empathy whilst also doing something positive to try and help.

My ex drank too much and was verbally (never physically)abusive to me and everyone else when in that mood . I used to want the ground to swallow me up if we were in a public place . Once we were out of earshot I would wipe the floor with him . The following day he would have no memory of it . Not acceptable behaviour at all but not sure I would have welcomed sympathy as I was embarrassed.

I remember dh and l were on holiday once and the news came through my oldest friend had died. I literally cried all day and dh was very supportive but nothing he could have said or done would have stopped me being upset. So if anyone had seen us they may have thought it was him that had made me cry or was ignoring me which would have been wrong.
So don't beat yourself up, it could have been sonething similar xx

Agreed men shouldn't make thrmselves vulnerable but l know my dh wouldn't be able to help himself - he couldn't stand by and let that happen.

Sounds like they are having an argument and he’s being a total arse for sure but I wouldn’t class what you said as abusive.

He might have been her brother.

She might be sanguine about the abuse because she knows she won't see him again for another year.

The urge to step in is strong but the fear of looking stupid or them both having a go back would stop me unless it was very obvious someone was vulnerable.

This kind of man wouldn't keep up that kind of behaviour to another man ie "an equal".

I think times have moved on as my dad wouldn't have hesitated to get involved ( and also had the people skills). My DH is very much of the mind your own business outlook (and doesn't have the people skills).