To not want blasphemy laws in the UK?

[Blueybanditbingochilli]

https://www.yourlocalguardian.co.uk/news/24516089.sutton-man-61-chanted-who-f-allah-jailed/

Thug sentenced for violent disorder and threatening police, all good.

But the chanting? Maybe I’ve got the wrong end of the stick but I thought criticising religion, even crudely, is permitted in the UK and not a crime so long as it doesn’t stray into harassment or incitement of another crime.

Labour are allegedly considering new legislation around the extent to which people can criticise Islam.

AIBU to think people should have the right to criticise religion (even crudely), and that we should not revert to having blasphemy laws in the UK? I apply this to all religions, including my own, and not just Islam.

He wasn't arrested for that though. He was arrested for violent disorder.

It’s notable that as of January this year the teacher in Yorkshire and his family was still in hiding 3 years later due to credible threats against him because of blasphemy against Islam.

https://freespeechunion.org/uk-teacher-who-showed-muhammed-cartoon-to-start-discussion-about-blasphemy-still-in-hiding-3-years-later/

Yes that's fine!

Religion or belief is a protected characteristic covered by the Equality Act 2010.

My response was to the comment in the one I quoted "Criticising religion is fine.

Aggression, harassment, and hate crime is not.I wonder which category screaming "who the fuck is Allah" falls into? It's such a hard one to judge." It was not suggesting that this man was convicted for blasphemy at all.

The poster I was replying to was suggesting that shouting who the fuck is Allah could be a hate crime.

To go back to the OP's original point, if the APPG definition of Islamophobia becomes law then shouting "who the f is Allah" will be a hate crime as it will be classed as being racist. Whereas shouting "who the f is Jesus" will not as being anti Christian is not classed as being racist.

That's obviously on top of any other violent offences being committed.

There is a very fine line between racism and xenophobia. All racists are xenophobic but I think a lot of xenophobes are probably racist as well. A lot of the rhetoric and propaganda around brexit was racist either directly or implied and it definitely emboldened racists to be openly racist against people of colour.

I had high hopes for Labour but I doubt that keir Starmer is brave enough to give up on populism and stand up for immigrants so I still think this whole situation get worse. Obviously not helped by people like the op who spread misconceptions like the uk having blasphemy laws.

Op, i would like to ask you: as i said i believe in freedom of speech and i am highly critical of religion. However, i also want to live in a tolerant and friendly society. Do you realise that by spreading misinformation you personally make life more difficult and unpleasant for people like me and our children? There is no law against that and you have every right to do it but are you aware of it? Is it your intention to hurt me and my kids? I know I'm sounding overly dramatic but I want people to understand that even if legal words have a massive effect and they affect me personally (and I'm possibly feeling particularly raw and vulnerable after hearing about that 80 year old man who get murdered. That could have been my dad or my father in law).

You have seen the role that misinformation played in the recent riots. Don't you think that you before you post you should at least try to understand the article that you are taking about?

Section 5 public order offence … if you are shouting profanities & making threats, regardless of religion

Yes exactly. Which was what I meant by my last line so thank you for citing the relevant legislation.

It's a good point that you make and would stand other than there is actually discussion of blasphemy laws underway in an All Party group (as mentioned earlier in the thread) so it is more than a hypothetical sadly. Fingers crossed 2TK doesn't go for it as we really don't need to go back to that days of the Spanish Inquisition!

I wonder if people are aware of plans to define islamophobia. Angela Rayner was asked to give more details about the Labour Party plan just a few days ago, in parliament, but she would not provide specifics. This matters because Labour are also planning for the police to start recording non crime hate incidents again, people might want to look into exactly what that means before suggesting anyone objecting just wants the right to be racist.

freespeechunion.org/labour-warned-over-attempt-to-define-islamophobia/

@HarrietHedgehog "I can’t answer the poll because I actually think you’re being disingenuous rather than unreasonable"

I would agree with you. Because obviously you're right. But I am scared I might get arrested for appearing to criticise Islam. So I won't.

I think the difficult bit is where race and religion are very inter-twined, it makes it difficulties to criticise religion without straying into racism. The example always given is anti-semitism, where race & religion are coexisting.

With Christanity, that does not come into it, and race and religion are very different

I don’t think you can give Islamophobia the same status of anti-semitism, as much like Christianity, race and religion are different.

Stopping people screaming hate in the streets, would be a start

As others have said, it wasn't the chanting that got him his lovely appointment with the judge 🤦🏻‍♀️

"Spring pleaded guilty to violent disorder after footage showed him at the forefront of the crowd while threatening and chanting at officers."

Violent disorder. Not chanting.

Depends what you're saying. If you're screaming FUCK G*D etc then you're inciting, in my opinion.

Context is always important.

Well you might be annoyed you have stubbed your toe. And you might shout that in earshot of a Muslim, and Christian and a Jew who all think it's directed at them personally. If the new definition of Islamophobia becomes law you may have committed a crime against the Muslim and only the Muslim. Because "racism". Be interesting to see if that APPG definition of Islamophobia covers white Muslims. We wait and see...

Inciting what?

I’m relieved to see most of the posts here have actually thought through the logical extension of what I’m saying rather than just jumping to ‘you obviously love rioters/bigots/hate speech’.

I’m very alarmed that Labour are considering some kind of (as of yet unspecified) ‘special status’ for Islam. In my opinion, any form of anti xenophobia legislation should be mirrored for every characteristic, with the same standards imposed across the board. It is rightly illegal to harass or discriminate against somebody for their Islamic beliefs, so the only place left to go with furthering Islamophobia is to make it illegal to say anything offensive about Islam regardless of context. If this happened (big if) - how is that not a blasphemy law?

I can’t help but feel the dark side of this legislation is that it isn’t just ‘so the far right aren’t emboldened to offend believers of Islam’. Because of the teacher in hiding and a number of similar incidents, I think the tacit implication is ‘we want to prevent such incidents because they’re not good for social cohesion; and we can’t stop the people making the threats, so we will remove the ‘provocation’ instead’. Essentially: keep quiet for your own good.

I thought we still had a blasphemy law but it only applied to Christianity. I recall some comedians including Rowan Atkinson objecting to a widening of the law when proposed during Tony Blair's time as Prime Minister. I am not sure the change was made.

I think it was abolished in 2007 and hadn’t been used for years before that but I could be wrong.

Labour know which side their bread is buttered.

Well that will take two tier policing to a whole new level. Two tier laws too. It wouldn't surprise me at all.

At least I'm happy to know next time I step on a Lego I won't do time for bellowing "Jesus fucking Christ!" at the top of my lungs.

Inciting God probably!

Prepare to be smitted. ⚡⚡⚡

Typical of Labour to do this when it threatens Islam!

I bet they wouldn't mind if it were Christianity or Judaism, I'm guessing. It's such a hypocritical double standard. It will only cause resentment and more nastiness from racists. Keir Starmer seems intent on winding an already bad situation up at the moment. Wish I hadn't voted for him now.

And I speak as an atheist.

I don’t agree whatsoever with how this man behaved, no one should be made to feel threatened in such a way, and that sort of vitriol doesn’t need to be verbalised. I do feel politically homeless though. As an atheist, and a feminist, I find Labour’s behaviour worrisome.