For not wanting DH to drive with the kids in the car

[Evecob]

So today we were supposed to be having a fun family day out,.. we have 3 kids. We usually all take turns playing music we like when we take a road trip (only 1 hour this time), but the kids were on their tablets and didnt want to do this, DH was driving and also didnt want to as he was in a foul mood, and put his own headphones in blocking out everyone. I put on music through the car as usual, as I had no headphones of my own. Usually the music would be played really loud, but as everyone else was doing their own thing and my DH wanted the music lower, i reduced it from 15 to 9. Im autistic (undiagnosed) but musoc is a big stim for me and i get a lot of enjoyment from it, im always singing to myself and its a way i enjoy expressing myself. Dh knows this. When he saw me enjoying the music he reduced the volume to a volume i couldnt really hear it.
I left it on 8... he then turned on the sat nav to speak directions, i asked him why he did that when he has his own headphones in because she couldnt be heard, lower than my music, because the sound was already so low. He said he will know because the sound will disappear so will know to look at the sat nav... (?) he has his own headphones in so this made no sense to me...

Time went by, and a song of mine finished, the next one was really quiet so i turned it up to hear it, and he flipped. Started revving harder while driving shouting about how selfish i am, threw his phone over in my direction, ripped his earphones out and threw them violently at me, one hit my neck and then fell on the floor. All i could think was he was in a temper and we and kids are not safe. I told him to pull over asap and i will drive the rest of the way. He did but stomped about doing so and refused to speak to me the rest of the way. The kids asked what we were doing, i just said mummys driving now, luckily the kids didnt notice anything else, so i spent the rest of the trip light hearted and didnt want to ruin the day. DH spent most of it storming off on his own but the kids and me were so happy they didnt really notice anything amiss.

He didnt apologise about his behaviour, and when i brought it up in a quiet moment telling him his behavioir was dangerous and i dont want him driving the kids anywhere, he stormed off.

Im not sure what i can really do in this situation. But i dont feel comfortable. He has a history of aggressive behaviour, already had anger management sessions, individual and couples therapy, neither have worked out. He refuses to continue individual therapy.

So sorry, OP. He sounds like an abusive arsehole who can flip at any time. I certainly wouldn't want to be in a car with him driving.

I'm sure you don't want to spend the rest of your life miserable and walking on eggshells. For the sake of you and your children please leave.

Please watch this video. It’s from a UK children’s charity

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xh1XmLghCws

I know it may not seem like it but i am trying to do what will be best for the kids. A divorce with someone who seems to be a malignant narcissist is more complicated than you think. Its easy to say get out and leave from the outside. Courts will likely go 50 50 custody, this would not be good for the kids. I would rather be around them the majority of the time. He generally spends a lot of time doing his own thing so we dont have to put up with his behaviours much. I grey rock usually and correct behaviour for the kids so they dont get gaslit. Im teaching them about empathy and trying to be the influence for them they need. I document everything. Im in therapy myself and trying to stay grounded.

Well done for taking over op - he sounds like an absolute prick who needs help with his irrational anger

Why is he driving with headphones in? He should he able to hear and react to what's going on around him

I'm sure you'll be very grounded when he snaps and kills you.

Courts won't go for 50:50 with an abuser. He's in anger management therapy which is evidence in itself.

It's difficult isn't it. A divorce doesn't solve the problem of him driving dangerously with the kids in the car, as he will be free to do this on his time with them. Courts won't stop him unless he actually loses his licence.

I sympathise, as my ex is a fast and aggressive driver, but with a clean licence and I have a lot of anxiety about this when he has the children. At least when we were together I could do more of the driving.

This is like my family growing up. My mum will tell people that we didn't notice anything as didn't know they argued but of course we did and it was hugely damaging.

How much parenting does he do? These abusive twats threaten 50-50 but it doesn't come to that as they don't actually want the hard work.

Sounds like a great big baby. Is he always such a mardy arse?

Right all other issues aside, driving with headphones on that are sufficient to prevent hearing music on inside the car is dangerous.

You'd be unable to hear a police siren for example.

The same goes for driving with very loud music. Especially if a passenger is singing along to it.

He behaved badly but the whole scenario was ridiculous.

The "rule" in the car is that the drivers needs are paramount to be able to drive safely and without being distracted.

You should have had headphones on OP and not been singing. Doesn't matter if you enjoy it and find it emotionally regulating.

With all due respect unless you're a professional singer, listening to someone sing along in a care is bloody torture and I'd have lost my rag.

When I drive I like it the radio and music off. The family use their headphones/ear buds.

DH likes music whilst driving and he chooses the music and volume.

The above aside, if he is aggressive outside of this scenario then you need to leave but both of you need to reflect on the safety of your driving/passenger habits.

She's already said he's aggressive. His behaviour is unhinged.

It's really worth following @countdeqdwomen on twitter. So many women are killed by their partners in the UK.

I think you’re worried about the future but staying in a marriage is going to have a lot of mental health affects on your children in the future. My friends mum said the exact same as you and both my friend and her sister are completely traumatised because of their upbringing. They wish their mum sourced help and divorced.

It is really hard to bare when someone is in this situation but will not divorce or leave the abuser. I just hope for your kids sake you build the strength. I know you think you’re protecting them by staying, but I promise you are not. You need to get help, now.

@CucumberBagel and she should leave for that reason.

But it's not helpful to suggest that her behaviour in this specific situation was on point.

It wasn't.

If my DH had suggested headphones while driving that would be my cue to say I will drive as it's not safe.

She repeatedly kept turning the music up as a passenger after the driver had turned it down.

This is also in the context that she knows he's an aggressive twat. So why bait the bear and put your kids a risk so you can sing along to xyz music?

He acted in an unsafe way in the car and so did she.

Hmmm. Yes, I'd tend to agree and I usually roll my eyes at the instant 'divorce' replies.

I grew up with a father who I loved (and still love) but was aggressive and unpredictable. I cannot tell you how much that being unsafe and hypervigilant has affected me, every facet of my life, even into adulthood. My mum who obviously was also there and suffered in her own way I think tended to assume we children didn't notice too much or were 'used to it' and so it didn't affect us too much. That's not to criticise her but she is seeing it through adult-to-adult eyes, whereas the adult-to-child dynamic is very different - there a lot less rational processing and a lot more powerlessness. It'll fuck you up I'm telling you, please don't underestimate it.

OP obviously only you know the full situation and your preparedness to leave, emotionally and financially - so saying 'just leave' isn't super helpful but if I were you I'd start thinking about how.

As I said I love my dad but even from when I was a very small child I knew in my heart that I think my mum should have left him, taken us, and not looked back.

I think it’s time to draw a line under this and get lawyered up.

He is dangerous. You need to make plans to leave him safely.

He drives with headphones in?

I'd start with that before the rest of it. That's massively unsafe!

Never mind driving with the kids in, he shouldn't be driving at all if he can't control his temper.

I agree, she needs to be safe and have a place where her children can experience safety. He will still have the children for contact, though, which is heartbreaking.

They do indeed. And while the mother can escape from a violent abusive rage-fueled man her children sadly will still have to spend a considerable amount of time in his presence for the rest of their childhood, without their mother being there with them, because his emotional abuse / coercive control will not impair his entitlement to contact time with them.
He will probably get every other weekend and a night or two mid-week.
This is truly heartbreaking.

The children won’t be divorcing him though. They will be court-ordered to spend a considerable amount of time for the rest of their childhood in his presence, without their mother.

The children will have to be with him alone for contact. It’s horrible.

100% agree with this.

There was far too much going on. No one should be driving with earphones on for a start. Why can't you all just have the radio on and listen to that. It's bonkers. Your kids would have noticed don't kid yourself. Parents need to act grown up not like children.

For a start, he shouldn't be on the road. He could kill you and dc just mindlessly driving in rage and he could kill someone else.
Imagine if a child stepped in front of a car driven by this raging man not concentrating on driving because all he s thinking of is how angry he is?

Also your dc WILL know. They are probably too scared to say anything and rock the boat or bring that towering rage down on themselves.

I can't imagine it was really a pleasant day out for any of you?

If you are already in therapy can you explore why you feel you should take this treatment from someone who is supposed to love you?

I bet it WILL be hard to leave but you will feel like a weight has been lifted, you are living on the edge, full of anxiety every waking second.

Yes there is a risk he will get dc 50/50 but I bet he won't want that, too much parenting on his own.

And dc will vote with their feet when older and can make their choices to see him or not.
If you can report any abuse to police it would be taken into account when giving access.

Good luck and stay safe, OP