To think this is a surefire way to insist that everyone comes back into the office?

[Pleasebeafleabite]

Latest BBC News link today. If I was an employer and I was forced into giving staff compulsory four day weeks based on compressed hours, I’m be making sure they were doing them in the office.

Yet more unintended consequences

https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c4gl5w83z7do

At my last place no one left the building to get a coffee unless it was lunchtime. We had kitchens and a coffee shop.

Yes but they aren’t quite as depressing IMO 😂

I worked for years in in Legal London (Chancery Lane) and later in central Northampton.

Nipping down to Greggs or wherever was pretty common.

Once the smoking room had to close there was a perma cluster of folks out on the pavement.

I used to get sent to the cake shop in my first Saturday job. Not every job is at 100% productivity all day every day. Chatting to colleagues may be skiving, but it's also building team spirit, improving collaboration, networking, etc.

To be clear I've no problem with what is normal behaviour in an office.

What grinds my gears is the idea that wfh is a skive.

It isn't, I'm under exactly the same level of supervision by IT etc at home as in the office.

What grinds my gears is the idea that wfh is a skive.

I agree. Skivers will skive, wherever they work. Just because you're sat at a desk, doesn't mean you're working productively. And I've had some great ideas for work in the loo, in the bath, in the garden - probably because I was relaxed and my brain was just spinning around as it wanted. Not all my useful stuff is on work time.

Also, I've just had a really productive week while my micromanaging manager has been on leave. Constant scrutiny and always having to explain yourself doesn't necessarily get the most work out of people.

@EBearhug Constant scrutiny and always having to explain yourself doesn't necessarily get the most work out of people.

It's a sure fire way NOT to get the best out of people. I left a role I loved after having a manager of that type hovering over me with her virtual clipboard and stopwatch.

I left a role I loved after having a manager of that type hovering over me with her virtual clipboard and stopwatch.

Same here - my new manager trusts me to get the job done. I have no plans to let her down and feel a lot happier in my new role.

@Thursdaygirl fortunately the role is a national one and I've now found a berth with a better setup.

A lot of people have a terror of people having jobs they enjoy or work well for them and the employer; and think work should entail some kind of personal sacrifice.

Mostly people who are, and possibly always have been working jobs they hate and unconciously want everyone to suffer because they are.

And another, is older people who are struggling with new ways of working and think because they had a shit time in the past, it's fine for everyone else to.

And I am an older person as in almost 50. I spent years on low wages, working shifts without a car and 2 buses to work and back every day which with public transport timetables, meant I could get home from a 9pm finish at 10.30 and get up at 4.30 to get a bus at 5, then spend over an hour in all weathers waiting for the 6.30 bus which got me to work for a 7am start. Later jobs were less harsh in that regard but still had crappy commutes.

It was fucking shit and I wouldn't wish it on anyone. And even 4 years after covid, i have not stopped being thrilled every day that I now WFH.

Some jobs have to be in-person in the office or workplace and sometimes, shit commutes means that person has a job but if it's not essential or not essential every day, I have no time for people who want everyone to be present just in case they skive at home or enjoy working the same hours over 4 days.

And as per my previous post, i've seen a tonne of in-workplace skiving over my career.

I want to wfh more thane ever reading this thread.

Id love to sort my tescos out, etc while at work it would be a better work life balance.

Genuinely how do I move across to a different sector. I've always been a teacher (good qualifications, lots of skills but obviously from teaching)

I'm happy to work up in a new career just not sure how to leap. I'd also love flexitime and to be paid for the hours I do but I'm a hard worker and so used to extra hours I'd really put the time in to get up to speed in a new role.

I just don't know where you start!

You sound like a power hungry call centre 'team manager' with no people or leadership skills.

Compressing hours and doing 4 day weeks is used in a lot of places already.
A lot of NHS shift/ops roles are 10 pr 12 hour shifts
I much preferred doing longer days and less of them but recently had ro change to shorter days and more:( I can definitely deal a change in my stress levels as found having more free days gave more time to be mum and also carer to elderly parent. Now I'm rushing about far more.
A lot of people seem to think people dp 4 days work for 5 days and how will the world survive if no one works a Friday. It's not rocket science..it's a shift system. So always someone in and people have different days off. I quite like a mid week day off. And obviously people do the same hours in 4 days
I would definitely prefer to go back to that
And from home. I get far more done at home without office distractions etc.

South Cambs council have been trialling this and found it to successful enough to extend the trial from 3 months to 12.
https://www.scambs.gov.uk/your-council-and-democracy/four-day-working-week
I think it is a fascinating idea

Surely the measure is whether they complete their allotted work? Or do you worry they might get it all done before their allotted hours?
I have worked from home with a massive workload and actually got more done at home than in the office - and I wasn’t able to claim for over time at home.

I think part of the problem with WFH from the employers POV is it is really very very difficult to keep an eye on those people who are slackers or are taking the piss. Even if you have a good suspicion it's not easy. Of course some people are slackers in the office but at least their a diligent manager is really the one who is supposed to be keeping track of that, and if they are it can be dealt with.

In work where there are kinds of productivity quotas it can be much easier, but there is also a lot of work that isn't like that. I know a fair number of managers who say they have seen productivity overall go down with employees at home. That's a generalization of course, but I don't think it should be dismissed as a problem.

Is that more likely in 9 hours rather than 7? I think for a lot of people once you get to a certain point, more hours in a day don't tend to increase productivity. That's from home or at work. Obviously if you are on a production like that's not going to be a factor, but for some other jobs mental fatigue sets in.

I think it's already the case that in some sectors WFH isn't being encouraged or allowed to continue because of supervision and productivity issues.

Not all jobs are about allotted work. I remember my sister in her first real job being shocked when in her first review, her manager told her she needed to stay and work her allotted hours, because that was what she was being paid for. If she finished her tasks she could ask for more and they would adjust her work to fill her time, or she do things like job related study.

1. 4 day week unlikely to happen, employers are unlikely to pay the same for less hours & UK employees are already dying due to poverty, so can not afford a cut

1. WFH works well for many companies & people. It saves a lot of time & money for both parties.

I work in a school so I doubt this will happen but I have a friend who currently does 4 day weeks in her job and she is struggling. Small family at home and her working hours has encroached on the family and their time. She much preferred working 5 days, 3 of which were from home (hybrid working) and got more done with family time nicely balanced. Compressed hours is making finding childcare /wrap around care a nightmare and on her day off she is doing household tasks and shopping as she hasn’t time to do it in the week. She is tired and close to burn out. They have removed hybrid working completely to do this despite it being sold as a trial run for whoever wanted to do it. She is now having to compact the time lost during the week into her day off and the weekend and she admits she won’t be able to keep it up for much longer.

There was a thread last week about the forthcoming budget with many bemoaning how awful it was going to be. Most of the responses to your post OP explain better than I could why this country is living beyond its means. Low productivity, work/life balance over everything and maximum reward for the least effort. We live comfortably now because DH worked his arse off and I did my bit but luckily not to the same extent as him. I simply don’t recognise the world of work anymore.

I used to always have 4 day weeks with the 5th day off mid week rather than have three day weekends.
The midweek day at home meant time to myself, meeting for lunch or doing a course I wanted. During school hours thought.

I think the compressed 4 day week can only be used for certain jobs. It's a good idea but as long as all days are covered in a company, so not every off on say a Friday so non contactable. The NHS, police and other services have had 12 hour shifts for a long time, which are exhausting back to back, however the days off are a positive. Xx

I agree! So much easier to switch off during a teams mtg with a lot of people than being present.

Exactly.... harks back to 'presenteeism' and 'hours', long gone in my sector. You are required to work the numver of hours it takes you to do the job well, be effective, innovative, responsive to the needs of the service etc. and turn up to teach adult students when timetabled to do so, mark assignments etc., attend meetings when necessary... busy job! Most people gave way more than a 'normal' working week!

If you have no commute, working compressed hours makes more sense.
an hours commute each way is 10 hours weekly - or 8 hours over 4 days, so same hours as you'd normally spend + a free day.