UK teens the most unhappy in Europe

[coffeeandteav]

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/29/uk-teenagers-low-life-satisfaction-europe

Why is this? Many reasons discussed in the media today. What do you think has caused this?

I can say as a teacher and having a 16 year old it is sadly very true.

Lots of suggestions some sensible others not so much.
Why are we different to Europe? They have video games and tech. So what is it?

1.	The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though)
2.	Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.
3.	Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and its cheap and relaxed.
4.	Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.
5.	Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.
6.	Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors.  Toilet control.
7.	Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.
8.	Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.
9.	Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.
10.	Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true)
11.	Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?
12.	Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)
13.	Too much homework. 
14.	The diet.
15.15.	Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth. 
16.	Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Anymore?

I'd add - too much academic pressure and specialisation too early. Major path-determining exams at 16 and then again for some at 18 creates 4 years of intense pressure unnecessarily given we expect children to be in education or training until 18. And having to narrow subjects and therefore future choices so much at 17/18 piles on extra pressure not to get it wrong.

Number 1 is definately a factor.
Number 3 - is that true? We don't have youth clubs anymore? If so, then yes I'd say that was a facto.
No 4 - might apply to primary aged kids but the study was about teenagers.
No 5 - yes
No 11 - yes, sadly . There is a clear and traceable link between teenage depression and long hours spent in nursery instead of with a parent. Gonna get shot for saying it though.

So yeah, I agree with the above points.

I agree. This was discussed too. One I had forgotten. Have to decide at 16 what they want to do for life.

Plenty of those things also apply in “Europe” - which is a huge place with numerous different cultures and economies. I think there’s a toxic element to the whole “positive vibes only” and encouraging young people to believe they deserve and should seek out constant happiness and fulfilment. Some elements of life are always going to be a bit shit and boring, but you’re going to report lower life satisfaction if you don’t believe that that’s the case and aren’t prepared for it. I think we see a lot more of that being pushed in the U.K. than in many other countries which take a different attitude to wellbeing.

I think we also have a very poor attitude to things like diet and exercise in the U.K., in comparison with the healthiest European countries. If you’re overweight, eat shit food, and spend a lot of time sedentary, you aren’t going to feel very good about yourself and your life.

Uk Is still a very sweep it under the carpet country and always must be fine.
Comparison is also the their of joy.
I feel that the biggest thing is lack of connection. We all seek connection with others and think we can achieve this through social media/messaging apps but it's not the same. Teens crave connection and validation, they aren't getting that often.

I've lived in Germany and have teens, this would be my direct comparison (based on my subjective experience obvs)

In Germany

1. The weather lack of vit d. SIMILAR
2. Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families. SIMILAR, possibly a slightly more traditional family on average.
3. Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and its cheap and relaxed. Yes I would say better in Germany- I would say there are a lot of free activities for kids of all ages here.
4. Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured. I would say in general better in Germany, there is a bit less of the over organising for kids (still exists tho)
5. Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them. (SIMILAR, maybe a bit mitigated by the generousish social state)
6. Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors. Toilet control. NO UNIFORM in Germany, however this leads to fashion pressure/pressure to have certain clothes. not sure it's better.
7. Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy. SIMILAR: most rent here and buying is for the quite well off.
8. Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct. Obv. not applying in Germany.
9. Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK. SIMILAR in Germany.

10. Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true) Maybe better in Germany, expected that kids walk alone already from 6 (after practising). Overal I would say a bit better here in Germany.
11. Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?. German kids do go to (very subsidised) nursery but it is frowned upon to be picked up by anyone other than a parent and much later than 3, 4. Lotta sexism still going on. Schools also mostly end at 1 pm. More social pressure on mothers to stay home for at least 2 years. Is this good or bad, hmm.
12. Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though), Dunno, maybe we have sewage in the water here!
13. Too much homework. SIMILAR, tho the German kids have the afternoons to do it in, it's still a fair bit.
14. The diet. SIMILAR but maybe UPFs are still used as snacks here rather than so much directly in meals. But all the teens are into fast food. 15.15. Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth.NOT APPLICABLE in Germany really. Pensions not great here so pensioners don't seem particularly well off.
15. Underfunding health and mental heath services. BETTER in Germany though very far from perfect. Kids do wait to get mental health help but they get it after 1-2 months.

This is not scientific, it is just to give a comparison from one person's experience. What I do notice is German kids do more things like walking and cycling to school, helping in garden, being members of sports clubs etc. start school later, I feel like the middle class is just bigger so they're all out doing healthy things more, obviously not everyone.

Says who?

Most of these surveys are not worth the time taken to type out the results, they do not have controlled samples or any sort of rigorous methodology.

My favourite was when the Guardian ( who else) published a survey showing that Greece had more neo natal specialists and units than Britain. Shock , horror, scandal….except that whoever filled in the Greek form had counted the number of units they were ‘planning’ to build, not those that were actually open.
You will be surprised to learn that there were not quite as many.

Of course, all British teens are plunged into gloom because of their lack of access to Erasmus 🤣🤣🤣. The Graun really takes the biscuit for oikophoboa.

I think a mix of lack of autonomy and the pathologising of normal negative emotions has made British children so anxious.

They need to learn from junior school onwards how to overcome difficulties, to problem solve to trust themselves to handle tough situations. Not without support, but not to have all these removed from them. I think we've raised a generation of children and teens who think if they feel sadness they are depressed, if they feel worried they have anxiety issues. They have not been taught that negative emotions are healthy and normal and will and can pass.

They have been encouraged to feel helpless. No walking to school alone, no unsupervised playing in the streets until dusk, no travelling to friend's houses or to local shops alone. At the first sign of issues at school - whether social or academic, parents dive in and get involved.

Parents have been encouraged to believe they should keep their children entertained at all times and provide very high levels of material comfort. But children and teens need to learn to amuse themselves, to earn money for luxuries, to do things they don't enjoy sometimes because it builds resilience.

I agree re robust data.

However there is data on the mental health problems with teenagers increasing and being worse than ever. Not sure about numbers abroad.

My daughter isn't bothered about erasmus surprisingly ,she replied 'What is that? '

I think as a culture we lack a distinct right of passage and provision for teens - we really don't know what to do with them.

We sort of expect them to doss around and have these golden summers of freedom as a blueprint from the counter culture movement, but teenagers from the sixties probably lived more boring day to day lives and had more freedom and were expected to carry out more responsibilities (helping around the home, maybe a Saturday job) so there was something to sort of kick up against.

Now it seems teens are expected to scroll and study as a given, which in an adult would be a recipe for shit mental health. We need to unclench and let them have more freedom (no tracking on phones!) in their leisure time and have a structure for some sort of community work/learning skills outside of academics to build confidence (I would like to see more of this in school time - I think we really let down non-academic kids who just trudge through the last years of school and we should have more provision for learning skills and trades at a younger age)

The article mentioned food poverty and the large gap in life satisfaction between the most and least disadvantaged children. I think these are the key reasons. I don't think this is only an issue in the UK. It seems that Dutch kids tend to have exceptionally high satisfaction levels.

My brother lives in Italy, married to an Italian lady, two children. School actually seems a lot stricter there (both boys at state Catholic schools). They start at aged 3 in formal education, and at 14 they have to make career decisions because they have to choose a school with a specialism.
The extended family is still a thing over there, but you are buggered if circumstances mean you haven't got that. Obviously my brother's family are all here in the UK and his wife's family aren't in a position to help with childcare. The 15 week summers are a nightmare for them.

You forgot the shit music they have to listen to.

Wow 15 weeks summer holiday? People would have a canary if that was here.

I think social media is a problem, possibly more so for girls. The constant stimulation and constant need to present yourself in a certain way is just too much for anyone, never mind developing minds.

However, I think we have to avoid romanticising the past. I was a child in the 70s. I grew up with more freedom and independence. But I also had parents who didn’t give a shit about my feelings. Racism and homophobia were rife at school. There was almost no acceptance of neurodivergence and kids were laughed at for being weird. I know that still happens now, but at least there is a mindset that it is unacceptable.

I grew up unable to speak to my parents or express my worries or feelings. Same at school. I have gone the opposite way with my kids. They are now at university and despite thriving there, I would argue that yes they are less resilient than I was that their age. However, they know they are loved and that they can approach me for support at any time. They are much happier overall than I was. I will take that and have no regrets.

I have mixed feelings about these kind of surveys. It is important to collect data, but I do feel that the results can sometimes be overly negative and I don’t know how robust the information is. I’m not sure that telling teens they are unhappy, helps matters!

I think @Allthegoodnamesarechosen was right in her post.

I would also add (and have said this before on these sorts of threads) that every time the biggest marker of misery, addiction, ill health, mental health issues and isolation is poverty.

Yet post a thread like this and the complaints come thick and fast - too much time in nursery (which usually indicates working parents and therefore not being raised in poverty) and complaints about too many organised activities, too many exams with too much pressure, and so on.

Middle class teens have problems as middle class adults do, but generally speaking you won’t find them living in squalor aged 33 with their lives controlled by the opening times of the food bank, the goodwill of their benefits advisor and the ever present threat of social services.

Yes. I think poverty is one of the worst things for kids. The gap between rich and poor is the most difficult. I have one child with OCD. But money means that we can access private therapy and make his life easier in many ways.

I agree with this...as someone who studied in another country, seeing the stress UK students go through is really awful and unnecessary. Adding onto that the 11+ exams it seems like students spend a lot of time under intense pressure and stress, especially compared to other countries.

Why is this? Many reasons discussed in the media today. What do you think has caused this?

Austerity and Brexit have been big political choices that have both massively impacted the young.

Plus rising poverty and rising inequality, as discussed above.

I really do think the weather here plays a massive part. I am so affected by the weather and I get very down and depressed on the grey, dreary days.
I imagine that a lot of kids/teens feel the same but maybe don’t see the link or recognise that it might be this affecting their general mood.

It's fashionable to have some kind of mental health issue label and navel gazing is encouraged on social media. There is a middle ground between full British stuff upper lip and everyone has anxiety, we are yet to find it.

Agree with this^^

We have far too large a gap between rich and poor in the UK. Too many children living below the poverty line.

The thing is though that “British weather” is broadly the same as northern France, Germany, Belgium, Denmark, Sweden, Norway, Ireland and loads of other countries. It’s not hot and sunny 24/7 in Europe just because you go on holiday for a fortnight each summer.

Germany has a 3 tiered education system though so it's not purely British to have separation at 11 based on academic strengths. I think the insistence every child has a C in maths and English and every child could go to university isn't helping. It's seen as a failing to go into the trades, why? We need tradesmen and they can earn very good money.