UK teens the most unhappy in Europe

[coffeeandteav]

www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/aug/29/uk-teenagers-low-life-satisfaction-europe

Why is this? Many reasons discussed in the media today. What do you think has caused this?

I can say as a teacher and having a 16 year old it is sadly very true.

Lots of suggestions some sensible others not so much.
Why are we different to Europe? They have video games and tech. So what is it?

1.	The weather lack of vit d. ( thats not new though)
2.	Rise of the nuclear family. No more it takes a village..... Europe has more involvement with extended families.
3.	Loss of youth clubs. Apparently they have them in Germany and its cheap and relaxed.
4.	Too many organised activities kids can't be bored anymore and all their time is structured.
5.	Cost of living and see the pressure on their parents so no hope for things being better than them.
6.	Strict army style school system vs 90s uk and Europe.Blazer uniforms even if hot. Screamed at if have a coat on in the corridor, silent corridors.  Toilet control.
7.	Affordable houses, some parents can't even afford to buy.
8.	Brexit knock on effect of costs and schemes such as erasmus being defunct.
9.	Lack of resilience and entitlement here in UK.
10.	Helicopter parents and mollycoddling . Kirsey Allsopp highlighted this. A Dutch lady said kids walk to school at 8 in Holland. Apparently since M.Mcann as a nation we are more fearful ( don't know how true)
11.	Nursery from 9 hours a day. Does this happen abroad?
12.	Sewage in water ( that would be adults too though)
13.	Too much homework. 
14.	The diet.
15.15.	Constant media input about the poor pensioners eg. The vast majority of pensioners are richer than the childs parents. ( obviously a lot are not but a high portion are) so shows a lack of understanding for youth. 
16.	Underfunding health and mental heath services.

All of the above? Some of the above?

Anymore?

@SeashellCandle that really isn't always the case-we had a school and nursery at the end of our road in Copenhagen- the little ones were in at 8.15 am eating breakfast and were usually picked up between 4.15 and 5.15 .

One thing though that was noticeable was in the business centre I had a desk in - that most left between 4 and 4.45 - - they used to have 30 min communal eating at lunch (provided) - sounds odd I know but that's what they did ) and get straight back to work but left earlyish . They started at 8.30 too

Another thing people haven't mentioned is the UK thing of commuting and moving way out for houses. It was noticeable how many more middle aged and older people were around for their younger families - they didn't automatically move out- many still had flats in the city , good ones in lots of cases too and very many young families seemed to have older family members to help out relatively local. It was a very family orientated kind of scene from what I could see. In the UK so many people end up doing lots of commuting if you want a semi well paid job AND a nice home you can reasonably afford and need two incomes too- that's why WFH and hybrid has been a bit of a god send for many

Primary school for mine was all 'whole class punishments' for one pupil's misdemeanor ( I still don't know what that was supposed to teach them other than life's not fair) plus 'Sporting Circles' rather than individual sports day, because no one was allowed to shine or fail individually, had to be shared experience as a team.

Secondary school was endlessly talking about avoiding bad mental health and yet they all seemed to have it by the time they left.

That doesn't mean that they're seeing it all on their social media? I'd be interested if foreign parents could check how much of their teen's TikTok algorithm is in English.

No schools have changed enormously since I was at school - decades ago. Teachers are miserable, they post here daily about how awful their jobs - but the kids are miserable too - it's a toxic environment.

Tbh I think they’re a bit brighter and able to see when something is absolute nonsense. They just seem more mentally mature. Here we frequently refer to 15 or even 16 year olds as ‘children’. I know a 16 year old whose mum drives her what would be a 5 minute walk to the park because ‘you don’t know who could be out there’.

Theres always been inequality. It’s just that no one went on about it all the time. Remember that people lived in slums. We had an outside loo. We never had a holiday. I was aware some people had a lot more than us, but I was determined to do better. So ambition can come from this situation. Now we just moan about it and expect others to sort it out. Sometimes you are happy having a goal and getting on with living. I think there are more opportunities now, not less.

How come social mobility hasn’t improved then? Of course there has always been inequality but I dont think the fact more people have indoor toilets means there is less inequality.

I disagree re opportunities, I think for todays young people whether their parents own their home & can help them or not onto the ladder is more important for financial security than anything else. There is fewer council houses, wages have stagnated (uk gdp per capita is pretty crap), public services are creaking.

@noblegiraffe can't speak for every country on that list , but a lot of teens in a lot of countries get quite a lot of exposure to English through telly (with subtitles) , plus it's one of the main languages learned at school. There isn't a significant language barrier to stop them accessing English spoken content on tiktok for example. Plus they have their own content creators, and yes, it's just as bad.

In my experience they are. All my husband's friends kids all watch Youtube etc in English. They even write in English on each others SM. English is 'cool'.

www.esri.ie/news/new-esri-research-based-on-growing-up-in-ireland-shows-that-strong-relationships-with-parents

A fairly recent analysis of Irish teen wellbeing that may throw light on the UK situation.

Fantastic and accurate comment. Work in education and couldn't agree more. Our schools have turned into corporations who try and train the kids in turn to get corporate jobs. The children who don't fit the mould feel like failures.

It's not about the absolute overall wealth - studies show that happiness of a country / overall quality of life is actually related to a low level of inequality between the richest sections and the poorest sections of society, no matter what the level of richness or poorness is.

The UK has a high level of inequality between the richest/poorest and under the last 14 year of government there are reliable statistics showing that the inequality has increased.

The example of Scandinavian countries is relevant not because of the overall wealth but because these have lower levels of inequality within society (and back to my original point, this is due in part to high taxation which means that infrastructure, schools, healthcare, leisure, housing is overall relatively better/less unequal for everyone, not just the rich)

But again I think it’s unachievable. To do that we would have to take more money from higher earners to give to those who don’t want to work at all. We have so many people out of work it’s really quite scary.

Lots of British kids have a dreadful diet. I feel awful if I eat badly for a while.

My DH, dd and I went for a walk this afternoon and discussed this very subject. I said the exact same thing as you that I wish there was something that the UK did very very well and became a gold example for other European countries. As it is everything is a bit shit at the moment in this country.

I worry though that the series of incompetent governments we have had is a reflection of the nation, a bit too entitled, a bit too lazy, lacking any bright ideas and just angry and fed up.

I blame schools (not teachers) but the targets, Ofsted, the extreme exam culture - the winners and the loser they have become excessively rules-driven and overly ambitious.

Has Ofsted actually improved education in anyway?

@noblegiraffe one difference though, is that Facebook is still one of the most popular SM (even with teens) in many of these countries, rather than tiktok. Not entirely sure it's that significant, considering Facebook has reels which is its own version of tiktok.

To do that we would have to take more money from higher earners to give to those who don’t want to work at all. We have so many people out of work it’s really quite scary.

That doesn’t target wealth inequality & financially we are fucked due to zero planning for our ageing population.

@NowImNotDoingIt yep- I don't think it's all about shit parenting and crappy dads etc- I refer back to the original post- I think it's a huge mush mash -

Will give you an example- we work in music business- did a festival with a band ( who we manage) my H was chatting to one of the girl festival helpers- young girl 18 , this was near Düsseldorf- our son was 18 at time so she was chatting about Uni and my H asked about 'halls' or did they do shared houses? She looked baffled- 'no I have my own flat ' - H asked if this was common- yep, apparently it was- !

It is well known that the UK has immense wealth in certain demographics but huge amounts of deprivation- my own observation in Germany and Denmark was that whilst there were still
Lots of wealthy people around- there appeared to be far fewer hugely deprived - certainly never saw a food bank or trolleys for donations in supermarkets etc - girls looked more like teen girls , not as if they were trying hard to look like a 24 year old 'influencer' -

@Blueybanditbingochilli feel the same.

I do agree with that and I think that's one of the main things that needs looking at rather than "pfft! Snowflakes".

However, how the hell is Romania second then?

There can’t be the sort of equality PP speaks of. We have too many people unwilling or unable to work. You can only do so much with such a low number of tax payers

As a 90s teen I remember so much hope and excitement about the future. I don’t think teens feel that now. Can’t blame them, young people are not centred in any government policies, they are pretty much ignored.

Yes to this, sadly.

mathanxiety · Today 22:31
Shesshinysheila · Today 19:18
Or maybe it's the fact that loads of people seem to hate teens and kids in this country as evidenced here.

Yes to this, sadly.

Agree, lots of people are deeply suspicious of and unpleasant to teenagers. Usually with no justification whatsoever.

@Blueybanditbingochilli there aren’t enough income tax payers to take more income tax from the highest earners. When you compare tax on higher earners the Uk is pretty much in line with other countries, they just tax the middle earners more. We can’t really do that as so much income is taken up by housing costs.

The ageing population is a real issue, we have more over 65s than under 15s. In the 60s we had one pensioner to 5 workers now it’s 1:3 and we aren’t far off 1:2. It’s just not sustainable particularly with our healthcare model.