Are French kids brought up differently to kids in England or were these just some super kids we met on holiday?

[XelaM]

Just returned from a boat day trip in Greece with my teen. There were a few other families there including a French family with two little kids aged five and six. Those kids were honestly some of the "toughest" (and most well-behaved) kids I have ever come across.

To start with, I have never seen kids that age swim so well. Those tiny kids were like fish - jumping from the side of the boat and swimming with zero aids in really really deep waters. We also visited some cliffs and some jumped from the cliffs into the sea (which was SO SCARY 😱) and those little kids did that as well! Even my adventurous teen said the jump from the cliffs was scary and she couldn't believe the two little kids did it.

We were also fed freshly caught sea urchin and sea potatoes (which were an acquired taste to say the least 🤣) and I was certain the kids wouldn't try them only to see those two taking one sea urchin after another with zero complaints.

They were up for anything and you never heard a single moan or complaint out of them (unlike my 14-year-old 😏). And it's not like their parents appeared strict or disinterested - they were having fun and engaged with the kids. The kids were super friendly and chatty (when spoken to by others) but otherwise completely did their own thing not bothering anyone at all.

At the end even my teen who usually has no time for little kids was impressed and commented that "those were some hard core kids" 😅 (her words).

So clearly I went wrong in my parenting somewhere 🤪 but it made me wonder - are French kids brought up differently - maybe more independent and resilient or were those some super-human robot kids? 😁

You are from Japan though, and Japanese are probably the most well behaved nationality on the planet, so to you everyone looks as though they misbehave.

Slightly related... at the World Cup Japanese fans have become famous for leaving the stadium in as clean a condition as when they arrived. They stay behind and pick up any litter...nobody else does this.

That would go for lots of venues, theatres, cinemas, public transport.

Restaurants are not comparable to public transport or the cinema. If adults can’t even see there is a difference, no wonder kids are allowed ruin other people’s evenings out.

Personally, I prefer not to share my hard earned evenings out with kids of any nationality, however well behaved their adoring parents might presume them to be.

If the kids have been taught well and are capable of sitting in a restaurant, you won’t realise they are there. As it should be!

When I did a French exchange as a teenager we took the French teenagers shopping and they shoplifted. So maybe good at not being antisocial at the table, but not so much at staying within the law when not under maman's nose.

This has to be sarcastic? I've been to France many times and have been reassured everytime that everyone is different on all levels. Just like here.

Interested in this thread, having just come back from French holiday.

We did notice French children and teens were generally well behaved. Though also UK children that we saw were too (ours were in public luckily!). However, French children definitely didn't seem to be parented more. Young children of around 4 were cycling unaccompanied around a (large) campsite, usually no helmets, or at the beach with parents presumably somewhere, but not obviously so. Ds was purposefully scratched hard by a young girl in the games area of the campsite - about 8.30pm, no parents in sight. So not all well behaved!

I did notice though that the environment just seems so much nicer - no litter, good roads, no boarded up shops etc etc - combined with good weather everyone (kids included) just seemed much happier and less whingy.

Children are entitled to take up space in public life. While I agree they should be well-behaved and not impose themselves unduly on others, I'm not sure "seen and not heard" is the ideal standard 🙄.

The majority of french children i know (lots, i lived there and am half french) -
mainly eat pasta with butter, endless baguette & Mc Do’ and are just like all
other children in temperament. I’ve read French Children Dont Throw Food and think its a load of bollocks. These kids were not the ‘norm’.

I agree that children absolutely should be in restaurants and eating with adults provided they are taught how to behave. If the parents or kids are not capable of teaching or learning good behaviour, they shouldn't be there.

They absolutely should not have a negative impact on other customers.

I've not read French Children Don't Throw Food, but the name is silly. What nationality of children does throw food? None I've seen.
I read French Women Don't get Fat. The author seemed to be trying to flog champagne as most of the recipes contained it.

I don't disagree that there are well and badly behaved children in every culture. But I've just been on several long train journeys over the past few weeks, most of the time spent in the company of French families, and honestly the behaviour on trains was impeccable. Few were on screens, all were quiet (definitely no noise from the odd iPad or phone at all), nobody ran about or kicked anyone's seat or had to be reprimanded. The family sitting closest to us on our return journey included three kids around 8, 10 and 12 and they were pretty much silent or talking very quietly/playing card games quietly for an entire six hour train journey which included an hour spent waiting around in extremely hot sun for a replacement train when ours turned out to be faulty. This hasn't been my experience of long train journeys with English families at all tbh - there is always some kid with a loud tablet or someone who insists on doing gymnastics on the train fittings or someone arguing with a parent. The later train journey on the Eurostar was noticeably louder and more chaotic and all the loud kids were English.

We spent some of the time in Paris and the other thing I really noticed is that in a whole week we only heard one phone being used to play a video without headphones on the metro whereas in London this happens pretty much every time I get on the tube. I do think maybe the French have stronger and more consistent expectations of public behaviour which translate into a more polite way of being in some public spaces. OTOH, Paris smells of piss reliably every time I go there, definitely worse than London. So swings and roundabouts!

They should be entitled to behave in the way that it would be acceptable for adults to behave. If it's acceptable for adults to laugh, chatter, make conversation, read a book, thumb their devices etc., then I don't see why any of that behaviour is unacceptable from children even if it means that people notice they are there.

@Goldbar the behaviour acceptable from children tends to be wider than what is acceptable with adults. We would think an adult sitting on their phone at a table with other adults is being very rude, but would accept it from a child.

I don't know any adults who would thumb their devices or read books at a restaurant table if they were sitting with other people.

I suppose if the parents hadn't been taught manners either, the kids don't have any chance.

I quite enjoy going out for a meal by myself and reading a book! I wouldn't do it when with friends/family though, but unlike my DC I'm making a conscious choice to spend time with those people.

If I'm meeting a friend and my DC are tagging along, I certainly don't object to them reading or otherwise amusing themselves while the adults catch up.

@Goldbar you were implying that adults are allowed to do things that children are not at a restaurant. I would say it is the other way round. People expect much better behaviour from adults than they do children. Children are allowed to do things that would be considered rude for an adult.
And of course children can laugh and talk, but adults tend to have a better understanding of acceptable noise levels than children do.

It is true for the extremely small minority who live on the coast. The rest have to travel there, pay for transport, pay for parking, pay for accommodation if spending time there, etc.

Of course those living near the coast have great access to beaches. That isn't a remarkable obersvation.

The vast, vast majority of British children do not live near the coast, however, so getting there can be challenging for myriad reasons.

You are missing the point rather spectacularly tbh.

Apart from one poster - you - people are talking about eating with other people. What you do on your own is quite your own business.

People are not talking about 'children tagging along'. We are talking about going out as a mixed group of adults and children and sitting engaged in conversation together. And when the children are not chatting to the adults, they are capable of chatting to each other, without disturbing others.

Yes to all of that.

I'm not really.

I think it's interesting that people often seem to have different (and higher) expectations of children dining out than of adults. They attract a degree of judgement than most adults don't, even when behaving inoffensively.

People do not have higher expectations. The fact, that people remark on children who behave 'well' is indicative of that. How many adults are complimented when they behave well at restaurants?

Behaving well meaning being engaged at least some of the time, making some conversation, remain sitting at the table, keeping noise levels at an acceptable level to other customers, using cutlery correctly. None of these are high expectations for school going children and certainly not for adults.

How many adults are complimented when they behave well at restaurants?

Hopefully none, as it's quite patronising. Tbh I find it patronising when people do this in relation to unrelated children. It's not anyone's business if my children are behaving 'well' or not. I have no issue with anyone complaining if my children are annoying them in any way, but I find it somewhat intrusive when complete strangers think they have a right to comment on unrelated children's behaviour. They should demonstrate some manners themselves and mind their own business imo!

@Goldbar when people say that they are trying to compliment the parents.

I have a lot of family in France and spent my childhood with them on holidays. The culture is definitely different around parenting (overall) - I can’t put my finger on it but I’d say there is a better balance of discipline and freedom.