To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

I was massively overweight (skinny kid, got very fat in my 30s). My mother and many others told me I was fat. It didn't bother me them saying this as they were stating the TRUTH. People cannot take facts nowadays so we have to pussy foot around which makes the issues worse. Everyone has to be seen as a victim whether overweight, alcoholic, druggy, whatever.

Anyway after years of being overweight I got down to a normal weight and still struggle with it. Whilst I would never call anyone fat, if I am fat feel free to call me fat, I won't hide from the facts even if others prefer to.

Belief is an interesting thing. She's deluded herself into believing she's fine. She isn't.

You believe that this is not good for her health or her future.

You both have a right to your own opinion, and to speak it.

And to react to what others say.

I'd leave it as 'that's my opinion, my belief, my view. I appreciate we don't have the same beliefs on that subject and we won't be changing each others' minds any time soon.'

If you value the friendship, I'd leave it at that. If she prods and tries to persuade, say 'you know my views on that' and let it go.

If she tries to extract an apology, you could choose to pander to the delusion and give it.

But I would go with the often-criticised 'It's not my intention to hurt your feelings. I'm sorry you feel that way.

However it is my belief that you are harming yourself and as I value our friendship, I can't lie to you about this.

So I must draw the line at apologising for speaking my belief'.

If she decides she doesn't want to continue being friends, so be it.

Just because OP didn't mean to upset her doesn't mean its OK. It a breach of trust. Gas lighting is real and so are its effects, even if "not meant". Thing is, the friend of OP can get thin anytime she wants, just soon as she gets there. OP and others on here I fear, are stuck with those self excusing, mean natures for good.

If you're concerned about her offer help. Why you'd want to call her out infront of other friends?...adding to her pain...I just don't know.

I think people are being a bit harsh on you OP- you have admitted you shouldn't have said anything and it was badly timed and its clear you love your friend and care about her wellbeing.

The difficulty is- you didnt just bring it up out of the blue, SHE is bringing up the topic constantly and presumably wanting conversations about it? Thats why I dont think what you did was that bad. Obviously, if she never mentioned weight and you suddenly brought the topic up that would be insensitive and inappropriate but you ARE allowed to disagree with a friend's views on something if they keep bringing the topic up.

There are topics my friends sometimes express views on that I dont agree with and we both express our differing views respectfully and acknowledge that everyone has different perspectives. I would never feel like I had to just agree with everything they said to keep the peace because its not possible for everyone to agree with everyone on every topic- thats just life and life will be very hard for you if you cannot tolerate that.

I would assume that if she cannot handle opposing views on body positivity then she shouldn't continue to bring up the topic incessantly. Or, if she does, she needs to accept that not everyone will agree with her all the time.

She's obviously very much in denial and the body positivity talk is her way of avoiding cognitive dissonance. Unfortunately, there may come a time when her health starts to really be impacted in a very serious way and then she will have no choice but to address it. All you can do is be there for her when she is ready.

Do you think someone in the midst of anorexia would simply start eating if you expressed concern?

I personally don't think a real friend lets someone wreck their health without at least saying something. Not the best time to do it, but I'm not sure there ever is a good time.

@treesandflowers95 I think you can only say something privately to her like, I’m sorry if you are upset; you’re my friend and I was frightened how you view that hill as steep, how you struggled with stairs and I’m scared of losing you. Not about body size but purely want you to have a happy healthy life. She brought the hill up - you’re not going to agree it was steep, the only thing you could have done is say something later, but hindsight is great …

Do you think someone in the midst of anorexia would simply start eating if you expressed concern?

Nope, but equally, if they kept espousing the benefits of having your ribs showing or talking about thigh gap I am perfectly entitled not to go along with that or agree its a great idea and something we should all aspire to.

Absolutely, but unfortunately in some circles it is being used to celebrate morbid obesity, which shouldn’t be celebrated any more than anorexia. It doesn’t help that so many people now think they have a right to have their choices validated by others and to not be offended. People absolutely have the right to go about their life without being bullied or harassed for how they look, but too many people are using ‘body positivity’ to shut down conversations about the health risks of obesity or even to pretend the risks are hugely exaggerated when they are not.

At size 30, she must know that she's an unhealthy weight. I think it's unkind for friends to point that out to her

If you truly love this friend as a sister you need to apologise and say something along the lines of' I'm so sorry I embarrassed you, tell me to f**k off if you wish'.
I'm a sober alcoholic. It's not the same.
My BFF told me my weight loss surgery would not work if I carried on drinking. Blunt but true.
I work in a glamorous industry and have beautiful expensive clothes. Nothing compares to shopping with friends on the high street. Big people rage about lack of line extensions but the larger clothes are polyester crap in this country that's why your friend spends money on hair and grooming.
I was a size 24, drank 5 bottles of wine a week and have a lovely husband. I was desparately unhappy. Is your friend unhappy? Therapy will be more useful than diet clubs and slim fast. Slimming world works on people with huge appetites due to being carb heavy. But as a former drinker I can tell you each bottle of wine is 600-900 calories.
If your friend is pre diabetic she could have the slimming jab through her GP. Her bmi would allow it. It works for most people and it would save her a lot of heartache literally later on.
I'm now a size 18 and dropping. I'm very tall. I wish I'd lost the weight years ago.
Giving up the booze stopped me scoffing cheese, crisps & curries.
I am disabled so I can't run etc but I can swim. I think you mentioned your friend does this.
You are going to have to suck it up as you've hurt her. Don't leave it, do it today. Good luck.

I'm all for body positivity WHEN it's combined with activity and movement. I love to see bigger bodies doing yoga, hiking, running and all sorts. THAT is what's healthy (mentally and physically). I can understand why you had to say something about the hill/walking when she brought it up. It is worrying in somebody you care for.
I would sit down and talk to her again about that. Not mentioning weight, simply talking about walking more. Can you meet up to walk each week? or do a walking or steps challenge together? how much activity do you do? Not all slimmer people are healthily active, they just get away with it for longer.

No, obviously not, but maybe they would realise they needed help.

She will realise soon enough when she has health consequences from her size

People saying friend realises she’s fat and unhealthy, it was the friend who was pushing the story about it being a steep hill and pushing her theories about body positivity. It’s not like she was just quiet on the subject and OP put her on the spot, she was actively wanting to have a conversation about the subject of fatness vs body positivity and health etc and OP just gave her opinion on it rather than being fake and agreeing with her.

Sometimes good friends have to say uncomfortable things not just what their friends want to hear. I always respect friends who are honest with me. Hopefully OP’s friend can recover from the shock aspect and see OP for the caring friend that she is.

I wouldn't have said anything personally, but you're obviously right in what you think. I'm sure she is aware that she cannot do things other people can do because of her weight, it's more likely she is using other things like body positivity to convince herself she is fine, but she knows she's not really. Going out and pretending to be fine and spending lots of money on her hair etc is just a way of making her feel better about herself. The alternative would be that she might just end up staying indoors. What people say in public and what they think about when alone is often totally different. She's probably overwhelmed with her weight problem and doesn't think she can fix it so is pretending it doesn't matter.

Torn on this but overall feel you are unreasonable. First, she knows she is fat. No one fat, including me, does not know. And feel ashamed of it on some level. That shame is toxic, it does not help people lose weight, it actually makes it more likely they will over eat. So body positivity - that you are you not the size you wear - is good from that perspective. On the other hand, we want people to be as healthy as possible when we love them. Having said that, I would never comment on someone elses weight or size unless they directly asked me to.

Hi OP, could you write your friend a nice letter, apologising for talking about her health in front of other friends? Tell her you are genuinely worried about her health - you love her to bits and want you both to live to 100 so you can have as much fun as possible for as long as possible. To live to 100, you will both need to eat healthily and exercise regularly etc. Tell her if she wants to meet up with you, she is free to “have a go at you” for talking about her health in front of others. Send a nice bunch of flowers too. That’s what I would do anyway.

At size 30, she must know that she's an unhealthy weight

You’d think so but not necessarily. One slogan/hashtag in the body positivity movement that people often use is “health at every size”

HAES has slightly different interpretations but many people take it to mean that there’s no such thing as an unhealthy weight.

I suppose it depends what was the intent behind what you said and the timing. Was it just about being concerned about her health (if that was the case I think you could have brought it up when you were alone) or was it also about showing her that she is deluded or 'in the wrong' and that you are right. If it was mostly about the latter then you know I understand why she is feeling annoyed or hurt.

Judgement and shame drive people further into denial and self-hatred which is not a place likely to result in sustained positive change. In contrast, self-acceptance and self-care are a good standpoint from which to begin to make other choices that appreciate your body. See for example Sharoo Izadi's kindness method. Fundamentally, OP, if this is a tricky and very personal issue, that your friend has not invited you into, then you've crossed a major line.

I have a friend who is a vocal body positivity advocate.
She talks online about her various health struggles.
She often talks peri-menopause, and she’s under 40.
Gets upset about fat-phobic GPs, who need to “stay in their lane” as if they don’t see older versions of her every day…
She is as also proud of her seatbelt extender “moment”.

I think the 'fat acceptance' movement is fading, partly because lots of its loudest voices have died..
You saying something to your friend may have annoyed her but if she's a reasonable person, she'll reflect on it and hopefully look at why she overeats.