To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

Everyone deserves to feel good about themselves. It's not your job to punish other people.

But it's not about punishing or shaming. It's about health and vitality. If that woman truly felt good about herself, she would have reacted so strongly to her friend saying 'The hill is not that steep.' She doesn't feel good about how her weight is affecting her health. She may feel good about her style and beauty routines - and that is a very positive thing. But none of us should feel good about doing things that ruin us. That's absurd. And dangerous. We all need sufficient resilience to accept reality.

Of course it’s about punishing and shaming. It always is when it comes to fat people.

It really isn't. I am fat. I know the difference between taking the best care I can for my body, and loving and appreciating it and the kind of 'body positivity' that buries its head in the sand about obesity and health. I don't pretend my size is immaterial to my long term health, and I don't kid myself that piling on pound after pound is fine as long as I have nice hair and nails.

Part of my caring for my body is never going on diets. I find that leads to bingeing and shame. So I eat healthily and exercise and weight loss is very slow, plateaus a lot. That's fine. But to be truly body positive we have to take proper care of our bodies and that includes healthy nourishing food and regular exercise. Without those two key aspects of self love and self acceptance, body positivity is a smoke screen.

It really is. Just because your experience is different doesn’t diminish other people’s. Every single thread on this sort of subject ends up the same way. Fat bashing, under the guise of faux concern.

I too, do what you do. Don’t diet (after a long term history of it led in part to an ED), I look after my body as best I can, but I also recognise that is a privilege that not everyone is afforded.

I believe that people despise me because of my weight. I am sure people judge me. I also have long covid, and that has made me unable to walk more than 40m - before I had covid, my weight did impact my mobility, but I could go shopping, take the dogs for a short walk etc - post covid that is impossible, so I have bought myself a walker with a seat. But I haven’t taken it out yet (I’ve had it for months) because I am sure everyone who sees me will just think ‘lazy fatty who can’t diet so needs to sit down every few metres’.

Why do you think it's faux concern? Why not genuine concern?

My friend is 40 and obese and now has type 2 diabetes and very high blood pressure. She continues to eat a hell of a lot of sugary, high carb foods despite diabetes. I am concerned for her. I don't care what she looks like. She's actually gorgeous but so what?

I'm equally concerned about my dad who is obese and suffering from many serious health issues as a result.

I can tell you there's nothing faux about my concern.

I’m not referring to you and your individual circumstances. I appreciate you may be concerned about individuals in your own life.

I’m referring to the people who generalise against fat people calling them lazy, greedy, responsible for the downfall of the NHS.

If you’re worried about your loved ones, you can encourage them to make changes without specifically focusing on their weight.

Morbid obesity is not healthy. It's just not. Why are we pretending it is?!

We aren't. Most people do not think obesity is in any way healthy. What is it with marginal and extremely narrow viewpoints that they get expanded and presented as if the whole world thinks this? Stop doing that.

If nonsensical views were treated as such and not publicised by those who don't believe them, they'd die out. People who keep banging on repeating viewpoints that they don't even believe are quite frankly, stupid.

If a segment of society wants to celebrate obesity to the point of being unable to move/walk easily then that's their deluded look out. It really doesn't need drawing attention to.

I think that OP's friend focuses on hair and nails because those can be changed/upkept with no focus on her weight. Nails/hair are a sign of grooming and she wants to belong. I don't believe for a minute that she doesn't know how heavy she is, she just wants to focus elsewhere. Neither OP nor anybody else needs to buy into her delusion.

I’m similar. Got fat and an ED through dieting. Healed my ED (well, it’s always ongoing), got ME/CFS (while I was still slim). Now use a mobility scooter and am conscious of people judging me. Not that I really give a hoot what people think but these sort of threads have a lot to answer for in meaning it’s in my consciousness.

That’s very sad @SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius I’m sure no-one despises you. I really sympathise re the long Covid. The last bout of Covid I had has left me exhausted for months. The vast majority of people who saw you out with a walker would not think you were lazy and fat. They’d far more likely think that you were disabled or ill, and if they did notice your weight they’d assume that was connected to your inability to exercise lots.

Please do use your walker and don’t let yourself be deceived by thoughts about what others might think. There are plenty of people in a similar situation to you. One is a neighbour of mine. I’ve never for one moment thought she’s lazy. She has a medical condition. Look after yourself x

I mean this in a kind way, sincerely, but your post gives the impression that you are a bit paranoid or at least overly alert to other's judgment.

Most strangers just do not care about other strangers. I for one don't pay attention to random people around me, fat or thin, and certainly don't have the time to judge them.

I'm sure it's true that you will encounter one or two unpleasant people, but they will very much be in the minority. And why let unpleasant people impact your life? If you want to go out, go out.

The original community of body positivity was very helpful for people in your situation. Such a shame it seems to have been hijacked by extremists.

I am really sorry to read your post. People who would judge you have nothing else going for them and their narrow-minded opinions really don't matter.

Could you put in some highly visible headphones and go out and enjoy being on your scooter? It's there for you, for your mobility and nobody should be taking that away from you.

Most cultures outside of the UK openly express personal opinions amongst family and friends.
Most people would think that a size 30, 5”2 person in their 20s would be incredibly unhealthy, however in the Uk people think it but they would never say it. Afraid to cause upset.
Go places like Eastern Europe, where there’s hardly any morbidly obese people especially not in their 20s, and you’ll notice that people are more vocal about obesity. It’s almost like people express their opinions way before you get to the morbidly obese stage.
I was a size 12 in my teens and my Eastern European grandmother would call me fat. Fast forward 25 years later and now as a size 14 adult… my father call me fat.
No, them saying that doesn’t make me want to lose weight. But it sure reminds me to watch what I eat so I don’t put any more weight on.
I think the op did what most people would do around the world… she was honest!
I’m sure there must be a link between the British culture of never saying what you think; and Britains obesity rates going up.

Other cultures can also be highly intolerant; the UK was never known for that, on the contrary, differences were accepted.

I quite like the fact that, as a rule, we don't blurt out every little thing that crosses our thoughts. I have family from another culture that's exactly as you describe, Mybabyloveswires, I don't see them unless I really have to (pressure from my Mum). Their small-mindedness and gossipy mentality irritates me and I can't stomach their opinions on other people they barely know. It's not just family and friends who are targets, it's anybody in their gaze. People-watching/decimating was coined for them. Funnily enough, they have very thin-skins themselves and for that they don't have or deserve my respect.

I understand what you're saying that having a body-gestapo all around you keeps your weight in check but it doesn't help somebody who is morbidly obese because they're already 'there'.

I'm a size 20 and have been for years- currently doing something about it. When I first started following people in the body positivity movement years ago it was about 'you don't have to hate yourself because you're fat' and 'here are some nice clothes that will fit you'. Most women were on the lower end of plus size (think 18-22) and there would often be talk about incorporating healthy habits into life (without it being about a diet or losing weight). Which was a great. If someone chose to lose weight in the community as long as they were respectful everyone supported them.

Now I feel it has started to become dangerous, the women involved are a lot larger and generally promoting unhealthy choices. If anyone even admits to wanting to lose weight, they are called fatphobic and told they'll be a failure. It's scary. Women who have struggled with their weight their wholes loves are taken in by it and not critically thinking about their life choices.

I feel for your friend as she has probably found a what she sees as a 'safe place' in the body positive community, but actually it sounds like it is impacting her quality of life. You should have a had a conversation with her separate to everyone else though as now she'll feel attacked and will possibly not make life choices just to spite you.

I also see where you are coming from as it was probably frustrating for you to sit there with her moaning.

I have noticed the escalation of body positivity too. My two morbidly obese friends in their 40s began with wearing nice clothes- great- and posting pix on Insta about self-love: fine. Now they have moved on to the vast medical conspiracy telling them to lose weight. Luckily, they confine that type of discourse mostly to social media, so I can choose to ignore.

If your friend was a heavy smoker, problem drinker, cokehead or whatever and you had pointed out that her lifestyle was unhealthy nobody would have a problem with that. "Body positivity" has a lot to answer for. YANBU.

So how do people show real concern if any concern is dismissed as faux or fat-bashing?

They don’t unless it’s asked for.

So what does that look like?

Do those of us with friends who are heavy drinkers really 'point this out' as though friend was not already painfully aware?

Giving support IF asked for it. Possibly by asking how the person feels, what, if anything they want to do, how you could support that. But obviously that could vary depending on each person. It’s not one size fits all - just like body weight!

I’m ashamed to admit, but until I got older and drastically immobilised by illness and injury, I would have judged you. I am not so daft now and appreciate it’s more chicken/egg.

What I’d say is don’t stay in because of what other people think. Go out. The fresh air and little bit of exercise will do you good. Xx

But how does the friend ask for someone to show concern if they don't think they have a problem?