To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

The body positivity movement is a bit of a cult. I think some people on this thread think it’s just about loving yourself etc, but it’s more like “if you lose weight you are bringing shame to the community! And you must hate yourself!”. They really encourage you to buy into the delusion and they’re full of alternative facts (about ‘health at every size’ and so forth) so OPs friend may well just not think she’s putting her health at as much risk as ‘the media’ are making out.

So I think in this particular case she does need a dose of reality. I probably wouldn’t have made it personal but then I’m a coward.

Years ago, when the whole body positivity thing started it seemed to be more about women who were maybe sizes 12/14/16/18 at a push (ie normal but overweight sizes, not size 0 models!) feeling comfortable in their own skin and realising we can be attractive with a bit of weight on even if we are not at peak fitness or optimal health.
It somehow got hijacked over the years by the likes of morbidly obese 'models' like Tess Holiday promoting 300lb + bodies as a beauty standard and the whole message lost its meaning.
Yes your friend will be aware that at a size 30 she will be at greater risk of health complications and she is using the body positivity message to delude herself that she is fine, I don't think you did anything wrong pointing out that the hill was not steep but I wouldn't expect her to take the message on board.

With your update, I think you have done enough.

Maybe in midlife but the great majority of people with dementia are eldery. Age is by far the biggest risk factor.

I agree. I don’t think you’ve done anything wrong op. You called her out in a sensible way - not too harsh but I think in front of others might hopefully give her a bit of a reality check.

Thinking about it and this is a genuine question… I don’t know the answer. If this story was written the same but it was about a heavy smoker (ie can’t walk as out of breath due to smoking) would everyone’s answer be the same? I know they are different scenarios but just a philosophical question as I was listening to the news just now about the smoking ban.

I answered above and I think my answer would be different if it was a smoker and now I’m pondering it…

I have a v close family member who is morbidly obese. It’s upsetting seeing the impact on their health.

Whilst I believe you had her best interest at heart, you handled it badly and need to educate yourself.

People that large almost all know the basics of better food health and exercise. The idea they are all lazy with no self discipline and eat takeaways all day, is a simple minded view if you did any reading on the subject you’d recognise as nonsense in many cases.

You are talking to someone with a complex eating disorder, that may or may not have a genetic component. You wouldn’t say the equivalent to an anorexic person. They used to be described as vain control freaks interested in fashion - rather than what we now know to be a combo of complex psychological traits with genetic predisposition. The same is likely true of many people at this size and bigger, but in some ways worse because of more sedentary lifestyles and mass availability of junk food.

It’s complicated.

The issue with body positivity is that it seems to have gone from wanting people to not be made to feel lesser, to not be bullied, humiliated or made to feel like crap because they have a larger body (which you'd hope most people agreed was good) to spreading all sorts of misinformation and fuelling people's ignorance into the damage people are doing to their health. 'Fatshaming' is always reduced to being shallow, but if people saw loved ones damage their bodies in any other way they wouldn't be made to feel guilty for trying to help.

Size 30 must be putting a huge strain on all of her joints and organs, it's sad when food becomes more important than being able to breathe properly and having a limited quality of life. It sounds like you've been reasonable, hopefully it will be the wake up call to seek some support for what must be an addiction.

I have a friend who replaced romantic relationships with food and was at least a size 26. She tried many diets and it was only after getting a dog that her weight dropped dramatically. She was lonely and comfort ate. That’s dog stopped her eating herself to death,I think your friend already knows she’s fat, but does she know why she over eats? Have you encouraged her to seek therapy? Obesity is a complex issue, it’s not just about food.

Please don't judge everyone by your (lack of) standards.

She knows she’s fat. She’s making excuses to herself why the hill was such a challenge.

I agree with you that body positivity is ridiculous. There are some really concerning accounts on Instagram. There’s one that keeps popping up on my feed with a British woman who introduces herself as a “mid-size girl, size 12-14”. She’s got rolls and rolls of fat on her tummy and must be at least a 16-18… or maybe she’s quoting US sizes 😂

if I upset her with what I said and that i understand if she's mad with me over it

If she's upset, if she's mad? Surely you'd be pissed off to receive that apology?

Size 30'at 5.2 is bonkers .. she must be in so much pain and is super morbidly obese . Surely she knows she will not live a long life .. body positivity has gone mad !

Actually if you've seen some of the extreme end of body positivity I wouldn't be too sure that the friend believes that to be true and so YES if you care about your friend you wouldn't tiptoe around these kinds of situations. Just being factual about it like OP doesn't necessarily equal being 'mean'

@GedEye I agree that it’s complicated but why does J keep talking about body positivity if she doesn’t want weight to be mentioned? She seems to want her friends to reassure her that she isn’t very overweight, which they can’t unless they lie.

She wants affirmation that it's ok to be very overweight. Which of course, it isn't.

Yes, this. Some of them genuinely think the media is lying/exaggerating about the health risks which come with obesity (out of fatphobia), conspiracy theorist style. If she is part of this movement there is no guarantee that she does understand the health risks, at least not in the way that obese people who haven’t fallen down internet rabbit holes might.

Yea, I’m 5ft 2 and was in pain at size 16. So much of my weight went on my chest and it put a strain on my back. Also didn’t help I was wearing the wrong size bras for years.

@Fluufer Thats what I suspect as well and her friends can’t do that.

You’re trying to rationalise something you can’t, none of us can, unless we’re her psychologist and know her genetic profile.

Peoples persona is really intertwined with eating disorders. She may play up to ‘fat happy one’ (but isn’t) and it manifests in body positivity stuff.

@Blueberryjamming I'm 5 foot and size 10 and I'm overweight ! I can't imagine being this big . Must be hideous ! She surely can't believe her own hype ! 🤨

This not a "speak your mind" scenario.

And you are right, we aren't children, not is the OPs friend.

You cannot continually just use your friends, or any other people, to give you a sense that what you are doing is ok and there is no problem, knowing they will likely be silent out of politeness. This example was really pretty far out, trying to get them to agree - to say out loud - that the hill was steep and it was a difficult walk. The choice she gave them was agree, and affirm her delusion, or disagree - at which point she called out her friend.

The OP was not required to pretend like she agreed it was a steep difficult hill, and her friend, who is not a child, asked her what she meant by that.

If the friend was using heroin and tried to get the others to agree she didn't have a problem, they also wouldn't have some polite social obligation to pretend that it was true.

Maybe have a heart to heart with her and tell her that you are worried about her health without talking about bodyshapes. You don't care if she's skinny or big you just want her to be healthy. Propose to walk with her again, not to loose weight but to improve her cardio-vascular condition. Tell her you love her and that you want her to be around for a long time.

@GedEye “Genetic profile?” Do you mean that J is genetically predisposed to be a size 30?

I think people are very good at tricking themselves into believing something when the truth is too hard to face!

Because if she doesn’t believe her own hype what’s the alternative? She’ll need to face the fact she is putting a massive strain on her joints, most likely has huge amounts of visceral fat around her organs and needs to bring her weight down immediately - all of this is scary and hard and may require some therapy too.

But as they say - “choose your hard”. It’s hard for some people to be healthy, but it’s harder still to be sick and in pain with various conditions that you could’ve avoided if you’d been healthier!