To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

I would say it’s fairly clear she found it difficult to walk because she is overweight.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe actually it was the people around me caring about me and doing just that that helped me recover.

My point wasn't a lack of understanding as to how hard it is, but that the threshold whereupon weight loss becomes seen as dangerously unhealthy seems to be higher than for those who are morbidly obese.

I have the greatest admiration and respect for any woman who feels good about themselves and their body and makes it known (I certainly don't feel that way about my own) and body positivity for those who are overweight but comfortable and healthy is a wonderful thing.

Size 30 is not just a little overweight. It's the equivalent of me weighing 5 stone at 5'4", on the brink of cardiac failure and looking absolutely dreadful, and expecting my loved ones to listen to me talking about the latest pro-ana trends. In that instance, yes I absolutely did need the consequences of my illness pointing out to me, as they were, continually.

Can you honestly not see the difference between overweight, even obese, and morbidly obese to the point of not being able to walk?!

That's irrelevant. Something being clear doesn't mean it's appropriate to say.

violetto, anorexia doesn't carry anything like the same stigma as being overweight. Or do you not see a difference there? I wouldn't presume comment on what an anorexic person might think or feel as I've never suffered from that disease.

Someone who is overweight/obese to the point that they can't walk doesn't need someone else helpfully telling them why - it's patently obvious and the person who can't walk, knows why.

'Have you ever known an alcoholic? Do you think mentioning their drinking would stop them?'

@cupcaske123

Don't be ridiculous. An addiction to food is very different to an addiction to drugs and alcohol. The withdrawal process for a start not to mention the dangers.

You don't get anywhere near the withdrawals to drugs and alcohol compared to eating too much food.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe That’s what the OP did! Then J started talking about body positivity yet again-that’s when it got awkward.

J is the person who keeps talking about body positivity and trying to get her friends to agree that as long as you look after your hair and nails, etc, your weight doesn’t matter. But you can’t force ppl to agree with you if they fundamentally don’t.

I suspect that one of my relatives has an undiagnosed eating disorder. If he kept going on about body positivity when he’s restricting his food intake, obsessively exercising and monitoring his weight by the ounce, I’d have trouble agreeing that this was positive.

Body Positivity really is one of the biggest modern cons. Basically, it says that you can be as big (or as thin) as you like but as long as you love yourself, that's OK. Well, it's not - and I can say that having been both overweight and underweight. Eating healthily with a sensible amount of exercise is the way to go. Of course, you may have a medical condition and that's something else entirely.

BruFord well that was the mistake then - "I didn't find it steep" and then move on and not be drawn back to it. OP's presumably not stupid, can think of how her words will be taken?

From OP's posts I can see a lot of judgement, jollied along by a group of friends who were also astonished and keen to talk about their 'friend' in hushed and awed tones... Ugh.

But you wouldn't argue that being anorexic is a healthy state of mind and something to aspire to would you?

It goes without saying that being morbidly thin is unhealthy. You wouldn't want your daughter or sister to develop anorexia presumably? And even if they knew how thin/ill they were (and they may be in extreme denial), wouldn't you want to help them be healthy? Wouldn't you try to talk to them before you lost them?

The OP is obviously concerned for her friend and it's worrying if she does actually believe she's healthy, because she isn't.

If, as you say, she's fully aware of it and doesn't want to talk about it, why is she bringing it up all the time and espousing body positivity?

It can't be both things at once.

No it doesn't exist. It's not up for discussion really, apart from by people who are in denial.

People I know who have become very active in online 'body positivity' discourse after having years of trying and failing to lose weight have all to a one given up on trying to control their weight and put on significant Amounts more, because they have given themselves permission to stop trying, because it's hard.
I've been overweight since teenage years and obese since pregnancy 16 years ago. I've struggled to lose weight, it's so hard. But I never gave up and decided to throw in the towel and keep gaining, and as a result I maintained my weight with a one stone fluctuation instead of getting morbidly obese like these women have. It's a cope, it's denial and it's validation for stopping trying. It's a terrible movement.

Except the NHS is costing all of us an absolute fortune as a result of obesity so yes. it is everybody's problem.

If the NHS didn't exist, she can call it whatever she wants and it's just between her, her insurance company and the coroner and involves no one else in any way whatsoever.

Whatever possessed you to makes uch a bitchy comment?

But no one is in 100% perfect health, especially past the age of 40.

Im sure most people who are obese would be healthier if they were carrying less weight. But they're probably still healthier than someone who smokes 60 a day, or someone who drinks heavily, or possibly even someone who's used sunbeds for many years etc etc.

I have one obese friend who runs half marathons. She's definitely healthier than I am. A lot of thin people aren't in great health - it's not helpful to overly fixate on one aspect of health just because it's visible.

Healthier for now perhaps...
And what about the obese people who drink, smoke and tan?

If she's obese and running then she's probably heading for a knee replacement in the next 10-20 years! I'm sorry but as an obese person (almost 'only' overweight, thanks to mounjaro) I'm quite happy to say this. Being obese is a high risk to health for many reasons. So what if some people smoke or drink heavily, those are also risks to health. There is no such thing as a healthy obese person. We are storing up health problems for the future even if not overtly affected by our weight now.

Thinking something does not make it untrue either. While being obese in your 20s is certainly not healthy, people are not usually in imminent danger of death as very underweight people with anorexia can be.

On these threads often the only choices appear to be
Obesity
Anorexia
Smoking 60 a day
Drinking like a fish.

I think most people would agree that none of these things are good. That said, I have quite enough to do keeping myself and my family healthy, so I am not very interested in calling out my unhealthy friends tbh, unless they ask for my support.

Maybe she won't involve the NHS. Anyway, a thin person might cost more by living longer and getting dementia.

'No. Publicly shaming her probably added 6 months plus to her timeline of feeling sufficiently ok to attempt weight loss'
@JaneFallow

How do you back that one up?

Honestly, you can't say anything these days without it offended anyone let along halting their life choices to save a life.

'Oh shit, I was just about to attempt to start to lose weight. I'll think I'll give it a miss for another six months because my friend told me that the hills were actually steep I was walking up, and that they're worried about my health, never mind ay.. anyway where's the biscuits..' obesity doesn't work like that. If someone is going to break and give up over that, they were a non start in the first place.

What bollocks.

As somebody who's clearly overweight given my username, I don't think you did anything wrong. You discussed it as part of a wider conversation with your immediate friends. Your friends overreaction was likely due to embarrassment. Hopefully when she's calmed down she will realise you meant it from a good place.

@wombat15 obesity is a significant risk factor for dementia as it is for cancer and heart disease.

it really is - it’s my scientific field. Whether ‘healthy obesity’ exists, is an interstitial period, or is a load of shit, is really up for debate.

If someone was spouting delusional bollocks about the world in my presence then I'd contradict them! It's about accuracy of information, and about not colluding in creating a false reality. On any subject.

I'm not going to agree that a staggeringly unfit person is actually healthy or that a gentle slope is actually a steep hill. That's dangerous, both psychologically and physically.

I'd not make it personal though. Keep it factual; challenge the accuracy of what was said. It might still feel personal to someone whose worldview is being challenged. That's their problem.

If it kept happening, then the friendship would dwindle. They're no longer really present with you anyway; they're in a parallel universe outwith factual reality.

Just to update, ive messaged her sincerely apologising if I upset her with what I said and that i understand if she's mad with me over it. Have also offered to have a proper talk about things if that's what she wants. I'll update again if anyone is interested.

Despite some of the nasty comments on here saying i don't really care or i just wanted to humiliate her, that couldn't be further from the truth. We've been through loads together and i love her like a sister. I'll always be there for her no matter what size she might be.