To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

The OP was watching and judging her friend throughout the holiday

Oh give over. People say this like there isn't a middle ground between being completely oblivious and eagle-eyed watching of someone.

Hugely fat people stand out, and I'm sorry, at a size 30 she is hugely fat. It is obvious when they struggle with activities that even just your regular fat person would be ok doing (I'm a size 18-20 myself).

Do I think it was the right time to say something? No. But I can see why it would naturally come out then, with the topic of conversation.

I think as you've been friends for such a long time, it would be worth trying to bury the hatchet - explain that you know you've upset her with your comments and you're sorry, it just came out because of genuine worry for her. No idea how that would be taken, I know I bristle any time anyone mentions my weight.

This is an amazing post thankyou! I didn't understand body positivity really until I saw Laura Adlington on her instagram page responding to a commenter: I'm not promoting obesity, I'm just fat and don't hate myself.

OP I do not think you have helped your friend

@cupcaske123 don't you think she's more likely to come to the realisation that she urgently needs to address the threat to her health if her friends don't falsely reassure her?

Op has jumped back on to say friend wasn’t treated unkindly at the time - they checked she was ok, waited for her, nothing was said to her about weight. Op has noticed what she has - posters are now saying it can’t have been that bad. Op was one walking up stairs to bed with her, walking to bars with her, at the pool. She knows how the other 11 people similar age were and how her friend was.
If friend had said nothing in pub after holiday Op would have said nothing.

If that's your takeaway then you've completely misunderstood people's posts.

No one thinks there's a quick fix to this problem. The issue here is OP's friend is clearly in denial that there's even a problem to start with.

It's not about people bluntly telling others to: 'Stop eating junk', 'walk more', 'lose weight'.
It's about saying: 'I'm concerned about your health.'
Nobody would ever be wrong to do that.

Well, I'll happily be naive, if there's a chance I can help a loved one live longer... 🤷‍♀️

Is she actually delusional, in the sense of not knowing she’s unhealthy? I doubt it. Sounds more like she’s well aware but looking for a way to feel less ashamed.

Fat people generally know they are fat. They don’t need it pointing out.

This ⬆️

You're reading between lines that aren't there – nowhere did I say you shouldn't have noticed, I said that she doesn't need you connecting the dots for her, especially out loud. You can observe something without going a level deeper and without commenting on it – if you feel like you can't then that's an impulse problem you can and should work on.

I also didn't say you wanted to shame her.

Once again, body positivity does not negate or derail change, so you do not need to concern yourself with the positive feelings she has about herself.

I'm assuming this is hypothetical and you've never had a loved one who was an addict because if you had, this exchange wouldn't be taking place.

OP I think you are getting an unjustified hard time on here.

Look at it this way. If your friend’s mental health was preventing her from talking a walk the response would be - talk to her, offer support etc. but because it’s her physical health a lot of people are shying away from it.

If she was risking her by drinking excessively or under eating you’d be getting different responses when she probably still needs the same things- a support network and understanding.

I’d bring it up again with her but in private and stress you are worried for her health and happiness.

You spoke about her health and said nothing about her looks. That to me says it comes from a caring place any YANBU

@SDTGisAnEvilWolefGenius .. we don't know each other but I like reading your posts. I hope you can work towards loving yourself x

I have actually. Helped them on the path to recovery and now they're 12 years clean.
It's what happens when people put their head above the parapet and try and help those they care about. You should try it.

I wonder if she had ever expressed a want to lose any weight? Or is she accepting of the weight she is with no plans to make any healthier changes? If the latter then I don't know if it is worth getting into it

Hi OP

I think that it is clear that you are concerned and that concern seems justified. I also think that it wasn't needed to embarrass her in front of friends - you could have agreed in the moment (or seemed to agree), then had a quiet word with her separately focused on the fact that being able to get up a hill or stairs at walking pace as a young woman is a fitness thing (not a body shape one) and, whilst you agree that she is beautiful whatever size she is, she doesn't need to change herself for anyone else and you do not want to shame her, you do worry that she might be neglecting her health a bit at the moment and would be very happy to support her with more exercise if and when she feels ready if she would like you to.

Is that really what adulthood's about though? Do what I want and sod the consequences for everyone else?

I have always thought that adulthood - and more than that, a fully actualised and joyful life - involves taking on responsibilities to your family, friends and social network. That extends to the way I treat myself. If I abuse myself so much that my loved ones are worried about me and have to cope with the grief, guilt and devastation of my early death...that is not being a fully actualised, happy, complete human. It's horrible, cold, lonely and also morally wrong.

No man is an island.

However, I appreciate I'm from an older generation and part of a close knit community where we tend to look out for each other. Maybe all that's changed now for most people. Sad if so.

Hmmm. Seems to me she brought it up with talking about weight and health, and earlier in trying to get people to agree that the hill was steep. If you don't want people to disagree with you then the onus is on you to be careful about what topics you bring up.

@LarryUnderwood Yes, that’s the impression I have as well. She was trying to get the others to agree with her and they couldn’t. It’s tricky when someone does this, as they’re asking you to lie in order to agree with them, e.g., to say that the hill was steep when it wasn’t.

The OP could’ve been more diplomatic, but her friend can’t expect ppl to lie either.

This scenario does not equate to a mental health one, because it is her friend's positivity about her body that OP has an issue with. OP has a problem with her friend speaking positively about her body and feeling positive about it when OP 1) doesn't think she should feel positive about it and 2) is connecting unfitness to her friend's body.

If someone with a mental health issue stated 'I am feeling too down to go on a walk' – that is a negative response, and therefore it is appropriate to respond with positive support – the person has also connected the two together themselves: feeling down = inability to walk. OP's friend did not say 'I cannot walk well because I am too big' – eg, she did not express that she couldn't go on a walk for any reason and she didn't connect any two things together.

She simply said that she found the walk steep and therefore difficult – that's a statement without any connecting factors. Therefore it is not appropriate to essentially tell her 'you found that walk difficult because you are overweight', the same as if a person with a mental health issue had said the same thing, it's not appropriate to say 'you found that walk difficult because you are depressed'.

Sure you did.

This woman is in her 20s. Realistically how many 20 somethings worry about their health? Even the early onset of conditions directly linked to obesity will be many years ahead for her. The worst she's experiencing at present is struggling with physical things she probably just avoids in the normal way of things. At her age the biggest disincentive to being obese is likely to be an astthetic one, and I think the BPM has changed this. At its hard core it absolutely does promote big is beautiful, in fact more beautiful, and its very easy for a woman like OPs friend to be deep in a culture where she is beautiful because she's obese not despite it.
She could lose weight and be an ordinary 12-14, but that's not special, exceptional and with its own on line following of people telling her how gorgeous she is. This imo is where BP has become a problem. When it stops being all bodies are beautiful and starts being the larger your body the more beautiful. And that is as dangerous as the pro ana movement.

She knows. She didn't need you to verbally slap her round the face in public with it, however well you meant it.

No. Publicly shaming her probably added 6 months plus to her timeline of feeling sufficiently ok to attempt weight loss.

But she WAS asking for OPs opinion on the hill by saying how hard / steep it was and seeking comment (or agreement) from the group.

The friend wanted the comfort of agreement so she could justify how hard she found it and therefore avoid having to acknowledge that it was her health / fitness which made it so difficult.

The OP has 3 options:

1. agree it was really steep and difficult

2. say that it wasn't difficult or hard and moved on

Or, 3) say it wasn't hard and identified the real cause.

Perhaps the 2nd option would have been the kinder one but I can understand why after listening to months of body positivity narrative OP went to option 3.

She brought it up so I don’t think you were wrong to point out that she’s not fit and healthy if she can’t manage a short walk, quite frankly no one is going to be fit and healthy at a size 30!

I hate the ‘body positivity’ movement, I’m a size 16 and I go to the gym and I can run 10k easily, my excess weight doesn’t stop me doing anything, but I also know I could do with losing a couple of stone for my health and joints. I don’t see anything positive in celebrating being obese.