To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

Her weight is a matter between her and her health professionals.

It is not for a friend to judge her.

Nobody is saying that someone of that size is healthy. But you accept your friends for who they are.

The friend knows this. She doesn't need OP to condescendingly tell her how to be healthy. She's an adult and can make her own frigging choices.

If OP was saying things about her friends weight without her friend bringing up body positivity, I'd agree. But this friend is talking crap about body positivity often. No one wants to listen to someone bore on about something that is false, especially when they're trying to get others to agree with them. Add in the fact that OP probably is worried for her friends health and it's no wonder OP didn't hold her tongue this time.

If the friend doesn't want people to tell her she's talking crap, which she is, she needs to stop going on about body positivity. Then no one would comment on her weight/health.

'Isn't it obvious she needs the body positivity stuff to make herself feel better? Any decent friend would be able to see that.'

@Carwashcath

Friends shouldn't indulge in something that will quite possibly kill her. Any decent friend would be able to see that.

You did nothing wrong OP. There is never a good time to challenge someone on a false belief they hold about their lifestyle, and it will always be badly received at first.

I'd be inclined to message her and say you notice things have cooled between you since the hen do and you are sorry that what you said was so offensive to her. But you love her enough to dare to be unpopular with her, because there is a massive difference between Body Positivity (a brilliant concept) and Health Denial and you won't sit by and let her confuse the two. Body Positivity is about treating your body well whatever size or shape you are - dressing well, styling well, never ever allowing body shame to prevent you from living as you want - from swimming or dancing.

But it doesn't mean ignore your health, pretend obesity is not a health danger, or that obesity doesn't curtail your life choices. That's not body positivity. True body positivity includes nourishing your body properly and exercising it daily so it is fit and healthy and strong, whatever its size and shape. There's nothing positive in maltreating your body so much that you can no longer walk up a hill or take a turn around the park with a friend. And you love her too much to let her continue to kid herself that this is positivity. Being glam, being confident, accepting your body and loving it - they are positive, but loving it includes taking care of it - not through punitive diets, but daily healthy habits.

She'll be spending money on things that don't require a dress size for the feeling good hit of having a treat - without the loaded emotions that come from clothes shopping as the upper end of plus sizes. I used to do it with shoes because there wasn't the shame if I needed a 5 1/2 rather than a 5, unlike with clothes.

I don't like the hatred on MN about people daring to want nice plus size clothes though - you know... even us fatties need to wear something! If there was more nice plus size exercise wear as well - it might reduce the fear factor for some of us in trying to go to the gym and the like!

You've gone about it in an utterly horrid way though and I think you've probably lost the friendship to be honest.

She will know her mobility is shit, she knows she has no stamina - and neither are necessarily linked to her weight directly - I can go to the gym daily for months (I fell off the wagon when ill and my stamina's gone right off the boil again at the moment and it's shit) - I'll still be a fat arse but I'll be able to walk miles without a problem when I do.

But she clearly does need OP telling her how to be healthy - she couldn't get up a small incline without pausing for breath!

How would it work if a friend of yours developed a massive drug habit and was loudly declaring in group conversation that 'they're fine' and 'it's not harming them'?
Would you just shrug your shoulders and say: 'She's an adult, she can make her own frigging choices?'
Or would you, as a good friend who presumably cares about them, try to encourage them to stop doing the thing that's slowly killing them?

My SIL is obese and she knows this. She doesn't need me to tell her. She isn't going to suddenly eat healthily and lose weight just because I point out the bleeding obvious, no matter how 'gentle' or 'tactful' I think I am. All I would do is make her feel worse and that's the last thing I want. In fact, I'll wager she probably knows far more about healthy eating and what it takes to get the right balance than I do.

I read the book 'Why We Eat Too Much' a while back and it has helped me understand how people become obese and how difficult it is to reverse. I imagine the vast majority of obese people who embrace body positivity, have previously attempted to lose weight and found themselves back at square one - several times. What are they supposed to do? Hide in a dark room feeling ashamed? At least body positivity might help them feel like a valuable person rather than a failure.

She's an adult.
If she chooses to eat herself into an early grave then that's her choice.

' If there was more nice plus size exercise wear as well - it might reduce the fear factor for some of us in trying to go to the gym and the like! '
@TorturedParentsDepartment

I think the worst thing for people to do is blame others / the environment for their own obesity. (Coming from someone who successfully got down to a size 8)

There's plenty of plus sized clothing to buy for going to the gym. A baggy T shirt and some shorts will suffice. I used to do the same. If only there was nicer clothes, a nicer gym, if only healthy food was cheaper, easier to make etc etc. when in reality none of that mattered. I needed to kick myself up the arse and stop making excuses. It worked.

I'm 5 foot and easily a size 14 (it's a nice surprise when I fit in a 12!) and I feel unhealthy and unfit - I can't imagine how she must feel at size 30. It sounds like she's using the body positivity stuff as a mask so she doesn't have to deal with what's really going on so you probably touched a nerve. I think it's that old adage of people who go one most about stuff (i.e. marriage, sex life, etc) are probably actually very unhappy with that part of their life.

She has probably already encountered comments from strangers and others in her life (concerned parents, non-PC grandparent?) about her appearance. Hell, I was having a picnic with my son once and declined the offer of a passer-by taking a photo for me. I happened to comment that I didn't like how I look in photos and the lady started talking to me about how she'd had a gastric sleeve years ago and never looked back! Again, bear in mind I'm a size 14, not a 30 by any means!

If you want to salvage the friendship I think you need to acknowledge with her (just you two present) that you are worried about her and that what you said comes from a place of love and genuine concern for a very dear, long time friend. That you are there if she ever wants to talk and that you only want the best for her. But also say that if she's genuinely happy then you will accept that.

Yup. If my friend smoked 40 a day or drank a bottle of vodka a night and kept telling me it was fine and a good idea I would not just smile and nod. I actually care about my friends. I wouldn’t be unkind but I certainly wouldn’t be encouraging them to do something that is slowly killing them.

'She's an adult.
If she chooses to eat herself into an early grave then that's her choice'

@Carwashcath

That's great. She can stop talking about it constantly and asking people questions about it then!

A drug habit is different as it's illegal and has more links to other issues such as theft from friends/family, potential prison sentences, children seeing illegal activity etc.

@Carwashcath what about a drink habit then? That's not illegal..

Ah... firstly there's many good reasons why people with addictions end up isolating themselves and its from conversations like this. Op isn't telling the friend anything she doesn't already know. What she's doing is infantelising her friend BECAUSE she is fat. The friend knows, she knows she could go to the gp for help, has probably tried any number of diets before now, likely owns a mirror and has made her own decision regarding her health which as an adult she is actually entitled to do. And FYI staging a group call out with someone with a substance misuse problem will probably go down just as badly as this has. Good friends talk about it in private. Ops judgement made her embarrass her friend in front of a group. THAT is the issue here. Just because the friend is obese and very unhealthy doesn't mean she isn't also deserving of ops compassion and empathy.

Sorry theres so much to respond to and i'm reading everything i promise, but i have to respond to this.

I think youre completely unfair saying I was 'watching and judging her'. There was 12 of us staying in a villa for 5 days and the pool area wasn't exactly massive, it was literally impossible not to notice how much she struggled trying to get in and out of the pool, and same with the stairs in the villa as me and her were sharing a room.

Its not like i'm the only one who saw what she was like on the walk from the bars/restaurants when we went. We were walking in a group together just chatting, so it was obvious to everyone how bad her breathing was and she asked us all to stop when she needed to rest. Nobody said anything to her about other than checking she was ok, in particular one night because she looked in some real discomfort and had to lean against a wall.

I totally totally accept that i could have handled the talk better when it came up but i really dont see how what ive said makes out i spent the holiday watching and judging her!

It would be their choice. I might quietly mention 1:1 that I would be there to support them when they were ready to stop but absolutely would not tackle it in front of a group of friends even if they brought something related up first.

Have you ever known an alcoholic? Do you think mentioning their drinking would stop them?

Yes it can help stop them. Sometimes they need to understand how unacceptable everyone finds their drinking. For some that is the spur they need to change

I completely agree.

For me it is also that I am living now at whatever size I am. Not - I will do that when I am x size/weight

Ive read your updates and am just adding to the chorus. I've been overweight (not to that extent, size 18-20 on a large frame, essential meds). I agree with what you say. However as you agree, there's a time and a place for having the conversation out of concern. She knows she's overweight, she doesn't want to be a size 30 and doesn't really believe the body positivity stuff, not in the sense that she would prefer to be that size anyway. Or it's very unlikely that she does (I obv don't know her).

Laughing on the plane and on the hill was to disguise embarrassment. Making jokes before someone else does. Or worse, tuts or calls her something awful and ruins her holiday.

I'd apologise in private for your comments at the table. She knows re health etc.

Reopen the conversation in private after the holiday if you're close enough friends but do so frankly, and once. Not hints and bits and pieces. Then you've said your piece and she knows she has your support (if she does).

Oh right... so, basically, once there's a chance their problem could affect you personally, then you'll say something? Got it! 👍

Yes, far better to tell them they dont have a problem and that their drinking is fine and they should carry on with it. Enabling their denial really helps addicts 🙄

It is your business if you someone is ruining everyone’s holiday, walking slower, taking taxis etc. By being morbidly obese the person has made themselves disabled.