To call out friend on 'body positivity' delusion?

[treesandflowers95]

My bestie (i'll call her 'J') and I have been friends since primary school. She's godmother to my DD and we almost see each other as sisters as friends.

J has always been a curvier girl but as we've gone through our 20s, she's steadily put on more and more weight. She's 5ft 2 and now a size 30. Over the last couple of years its been noticeable how much into the 'body positivity' movement shes got. Her socials are full of shared posts about it, and she'll often bring it up in conversation.

Its not something i've ever really made an issue of with her before as though it worries me for her, i've always been of the view that everybody's body is their own business.

However we were on a hen do a few weeks ago, and honestly it was a real eye opener to just how big she's got and the impact that's starting to have on her health. The first one for me was that she needed a seatbelt extender on the flight and she seemed to think it was hilarious. We stayed in a villa on the edge of a little area with a strip of bars and restaurants. It was 350yds (i put it into Google maps) and slightly downhill on the way there and uphill on the way back, but nothing major. J was struggling to keep up with us on the way there, and on the way back was having to stop at least once because she was so out of breath. Bear in mind this was a group of girls quite a few in heels etc so its not like we were sprinting, and shes sweating and bright red. Aside from that, even basic stuff round the villa like walking upstairs (it was over 3 floors) and she struggled climbing up and down the ladders in and out of the pool. I didnt say anything to her at the time but its played on my mind.

This weekend there were four of us (all close friends) who'd been on the hen do out for drinks in the pub. We were talking about the hen do and i can't remember how it came up, but she started talking about the walk back to the villa and how steep the hill was etc. I said to her something along the lines of 'Oh it wasn't that bad' to which she replied 'Are you joking, it was so steep!' and was basically trying to get the other girls to agree and I just left it.

A bit later in the conversation she was talking about some body positivity stuff and how its about how you look after yourself and not how much you weigh. I've bit my tongue at stuff like this loads of times, but this time i said 'I think that's true to an extent but there's a point where you can't argue that you're healthy'. She didn't look happy and said 'what are you saying?'. I basically said that the fact she thought that walk on holiday was so difficult that she should have struggled with it so much was worrying, and might suggest her health wasn't as good as she seems to think it is. The reality is (and I didn't say this to her) that she eats really badly and drinks quite a lot. She spends loads on hair, make up, nails, etc which she considers as looking after herself.

She got really frosty with me, and has been funny in texts since, not her usual self, so i know i've annoyed her.

Fully accept it may not have been the best way to bring it up especially in front of others (but it wasnt like it was strangers, we're all mates back to primary school) but i just felt like it wasn't a time where i could just say nothing in the moment.

So i guess question is AIBU to have brought this up with her, and any advice on how to handle things next.

By the time your friend and her body positive cohorts develop type 1 diabetes there won’t be enough money in the nhs to treat the millions who will be affected.

But you're at more risk, the heavier you are. Someone carrying 30 stone of weight compared to 10 stone of weight, you can't tell me they are both at equal risk of damaging their knees?

No matter how you attempt to dress it up, obesity is a serious disease yet everyone is terrified of upsetting people and instead absolutely fight their corner that it size doesn't matter.

We all know it does.

Including people who need treatment because of sporting activities, people injured in car accidents, kids breaking their arms because they’ve fallen off a climbing frame, all pregnancy treatment…? After all, it could be argued individuals cause all of those.

Would solve the NHS funding issue I suppose!

Not the right setting but sometimes you do have to be cruel to be kind. A friend of mine when she was a teen was diagnosed with a condition that was directly linked to her weight. Her mum and dad were overweight themselves and insisted my friend was perfectly normal sized, big boned and and a whole lot of other excuses. My friend and her parents did not take the doctors warnings seriously and my friend lost her sight for a year at the age of 19. She was extremely lucky that she was able to lose the weight and eventually her sight returned but it was a very scary experience and she has not been able to forgive her parents.

Very tricky subject. But great you cared enough to say something.

People feel quite happy telling me I am too skinny and need to eat more pies (I'm 8.10 and 5.7 and eat good food/exercise/deny myself some 'treats') but would never dare say anything to someone that is overweight.

I have over weight/unfit friends that can't manage a simple walk as the walk is too steep/long etc Nothing to do with their fitness.

I think you did the right thing. But the truth hurts and she is clearly in denial.

The body positivity movement seems to imply to me that we are expected to believe that anyone that is very overweight is totally unable to do anything about it and nor should they. Yet their diet is poor and they don't often exercise.

It's quite literally the ELEPHANT in the room!

As an overweight person myself, your last sentence made me laugh out loud, in the hairdressers 😂

Well, obviously you are correct in your view her health is suffering but you should never have said anything and certainly not when in a group.

That was never going to end well.

She knows she's fat.
She knows that's why she struggles to walk.

She's not ready to face it or do anything to improve her health and she views your concern as judgement.

Just apologise. Say the last thing you ever wanted was to hurt her but you love her, you're concerned for her health and you're always here for her.

Then don't mention it again unless she asks for your opinion.
Yes, it will be the elephant in the room but there's no realistic way round that right now.

Definitely apologise for challenging her in public, even if you are a group of friends it will have felt like a personal attack...which in all honesty she might struggle to forgive for a little while.

But reinforce that you love her dearly, whatever her shape or size but you are really concerned that she's not taking care of the important stuff, like moving more for better cardio, strength and joint health.

I am obese, I refuse to be cowed for it...but precisely because I do exercise regularly and eat well (my body is just refusing to lose weight, long story, doctors are baffled too).

In my running club there's a surprising amount of us larger runners. We've all run pretty impressive distances, some have done ultra marathons...50 miles! Admittedly none of us will break any speed records, but we all move often and with purpose - that's body positivity for us. Being the healthiest version of yourself without being self conscious about what you look like. It really does sound like your friend is missing the point of the first part and could do with some support/encouragement to at least address the activity side of things by walking regularly.

Really hope you can get this sorted between you and she starts heading in a healthier direction.

It's always an unpopular opinion but I think you did the right thing. My ex was big and kept getting bigger. I ignored the problem because his body his choice. But my step dd was huge and getting bigger and he couldn't see it. It was all body positivity while ruining his dd health. She was wearing adult size 12 when age 8. When I used to raise my concerns with him he just couldn't see she was obese and would constantly come back with how no one else ever says anything so I must be wrong. When they got the letter from school that's she's so overweight every friend they told reacted with oh how silly don't worry about it it doesn't account for muscle etc etc. Feeding the delusions.

People need to be honest. Maybe you said it at the wrong time but avoiding the topic helps no one

Friends are honest with each other. You'd be a pretty poor friend if you didn't admit you're worried.

I get that it's generally considered rude to comment on others' body shape, but it does sound like OP's Friend is actually deliberately bringing up the body positivity stuff of her own accord. Her weight is ultimately her business, but maybe she needs to stick to less sensitive subjects if she is apt to be hurt by anything other than fawning agreement on this topic.

The BP stuff IS mad. You'd think COVID would have put paid to this kind of delusion: it was startling how strongly obesity correlated with poor outcomes, even while smokers appeared to have pretty much no additional risk (not saying people should smoke either, just that it goes to show how bad obesity is for your body).

I meant avoidable not unavoidable. Isn't there a link between red meat and cancer for example. People who don't avoid the sun get skin cancer. People under a lot of stress get heart problems and high blood pressure. People who bottle everything up are prone to mental health problems. If you don't have enough calcium it leads to weak bones and so on.

You mean Type 2.

@LittleLegsKeepGoing What a lovely and inspiring post. Bravo to you and thanks for a lovely kind post that is uplifting to read. Too little of that on this issue on MN in my opinion.

I don’t think it was your place to ‘call her out’.

You call people out when their actions affect you. Her views don’t affect you, she didn’t ask you to carry her case up the 350m walk.

I fluctuate between 10 stone and 12 stone, and I get very uncomfortable if any one other than my mum or husband comments on my weight, however indirectly.

People do not owe you their health

I fundamentally disagree with this. I have a husband and three children and believe that the very least they deserve is for me to attempt to keep myself healthy. We do have a responsibility to those around us.

Exactly. Your friend was out of breath and over exerted and needing rests as she is carrying about 22 stone of excess weight. It’s nothing like a skinny person who finds walking boring.

So true about how some people don’t realise how unfit they are. I barely left my house during the pandemic and when I did it was an Uber to the train station or a short flat walk to the shopping centre directly across from me. I even got my groceries delivered every week. I would ALWAYS use the lift in my flat building, never the stairs and I didn’t do any home workouts.

So I too never realised until I went away with some friends and was struggling with walking in a hilly European country.

When I got on my scales in August 2021 and was 12 stone 10 at 5ft 2, no joke - I genuinely assumed they were broken, because I’d weighed myself a few months earlier and was just under 12 stone (and bear in mind I had been 9 stone for most of my adult life)

So the next day I went along to the nearby Boots to weigh myself. What a shock to find out I was 12 stone 13 according to the body monitor machine. So my home scales were being kind if anything!I remember laugh -crying about it with a friend who was in a similar predicament.

I think I took the NHS /public health advice to “stay at home” a bit too literally for most of the pandemic 😬

Does this include people engaging in sports and hobbies where (often serious, even life changing) injuries are not uncommon? Maybe also people who go out and about in cities late at night despite knowing that drunken assaults are common. Skiing holidays, horse riding, fell walking, golf (look at the stats) etc would become extremely expensive under your model.

The responsibility you feel towards your husband and children is inevitably (and rightly) very different to an imagined responsibility towards a friend to stay in the health that your friends considers acceptable.

Why is it everyone else's responsibility to say and do the exact right thing to help someone lose weight?

At which point does the person upsetting everyone by harming themselves take responsibility for it?

Why is it the OP has to go away and think about what she should be saying, instead of her friend telling her what the plan is to lose weight? The OP is supposed to be infinite and patient and wise, but her friend doesn't even have to acknowledge the fact that she's inflicting a heap load of pain on everyone around her? Why is that?

If the friend has a disease and no agency and autonomy to deal with it, then why is it not listed as such so everyone can understand it?

I think you could have brought it up privately but I agree.
At a size 30, there's very little chance that she doesn't have hypertension, diabetes, obstructive sleep apnoea, or other health related conditions.
Then there are the small but annoying details of each day.like swollen painful feet and ankles, skin rubbing, infections that come from that. Generally being out of breath, sweating profusely when everyone else is just comfortable. Physically not being able to keep up with everyone.

I've never been a fan of the body positivity movement for fat people, as it was a movement actually started for disabled people who had for example lost a leg, and I think it is dangerous to act like there are not health implications involved with being morbidly obese.

As a morbidly obese person myself, I was always at odds with seeing people going, oh big is beautiful! It's not about what you weigh. Except I was on stupid amounts of medication, and I WAS ill because of my weight.

If she physically likes herself, that's great, but she really does need to be showing herself more love by treating her body better shes putting unnecessary strain on her body.

I had a gastric sleeve, lost 10 stone and life was vastly different...easier and happier!

I had a conversation like you had with your friend, but given to me by a gypsy lady in the nail salon. No one else ever recommended surgery to me, and listening to her- a stranger is the best thing I've ever done. I even had two babies that would have never existed otherwise.

It was the friend raising it not Op.
Wanting her to say the hill was steep when it wasn’t. Wanting her to agree that you can look after yourself at any weight.
So Op could either try and brush off which was first tack - oh it wasn’t that bad. But when friend carried in Op can either lie and say yes it was or say what she did which sounds tactful. Op hasn’t confronted friend, friend repeatedly brought it up.

Yes of course. Everyone.

What about women who suffer birthing complications? Of course, they chose to carry to term.