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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To ask what has happened to BBC reporting? Mariah Carey

209 replies

Skye109 · 28/08/2024 21:23

Please can someone explain this report to me??
https://www.bbc.com/pidgin/articles/cqxjq7x17qzo

OP posts:
CellophaneFlower · 29/08/2024 11:15

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 10:58

Yes 'it', as in pidgin obviously? Should it be a 'them'?!

Yes, because there's lots of different 'pidgins'. The specific one in the bbc reports is African, why would you think it originated in China? 'Chinese pidgin' has probably died out along with western actors with eyeliner by now; this African family of pidgins has developed into a true language.

I guess I was meaning to point out that pidgin isn't native to Africa as some seem horrified that posters aren't aware what it is.

I didn't realise the term Pidgin English solely related to the language Africans use, I assumed it was any kind of pidgin that included English.

timenowplease · 29/08/2024 11:15

Can someone explain what's the difference between pidgin english and a regional dialect?

NeverDropYourMooncup · 29/08/2024 11:15

I absolutely love the language - seeing it written down makes perfect sense in rhythm, tone, even pitch is absolutely clear. It's giving millions of people their voice on paper, just as with Scots or any other people who have been told their way of speaking, communicating, even thinking is not 'proper'.

I don't find it funny in the slightest - beautiful, easily understandable, melodic - but not funny.

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 11:17

I also love the people on here who have had a quick Google and scan of Wiki who are now clearly experts in Pidgin.

If you mean me... I'm definitely not an expert, I just find languages and their development very interesting and want to learn more!

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 11:20

I didn't realise the term Pidgin English solely related to the language Africans use, I assumed it was any kind of pidgin that included English.

I don't think it does... the specific one used (and apparently being standardized) by the BBC is. It's rather muddled and confusing terminology I guess.

JaneJeffer · 29/08/2024 11:34

I'm sure there was a thread like this before

Taytoface · 29/08/2024 12:00

I was pondering whether finding this funny is racist. I don't think it is necessarily the language it's self that is funny. It is the contrast with how meaning is rendered so vastly differently through two languages that have quite a bit of commonality. One meeting quite dry and straightforward, the other much more expressive and descriptive. It makes me wonder what it says about the two speaking populations. I think it highlights differences and commonalities in a really interesting, and yes funny way.

I don't think finding humour in cultural and racial differences is automatically racist, sometimes it is just fucking funny.

angeldelite · 29/08/2024 12:05

Taytoface · 29/08/2024 12:00

I was pondering whether finding this funny is racist. I don't think it is necessarily the language it's self that is funny. It is the contrast with how meaning is rendered so vastly differently through two languages that have quite a bit of commonality. One meeting quite dry and straightforward, the other much more expressive and descriptive. It makes me wonder what it says about the two speaking populations. I think it highlights differences and commonalities in a really interesting, and yes funny way.

I don't think finding humour in cultural and racial differences is automatically racist, sometimes it is just fucking funny.

I agree, as someone who studied languages at university and who speaks 5+ languages, I don’t think being initially surprised by pidgin English in written form is racist.

It says more about why this knowledge isn’t more mainstream.

CellophaneFlower · 29/08/2024 12:09

Fancycheese · 29/08/2024 11:12

Exactly. That is comedy gold and this thread must be preserved for all time.

I also love the people on here who have had a quick Google and scan of Wiki who are now clearly experts in Pidgin. Some of you could get into an argument in an empty room.

I am one that's had a quick Google 🙋‍♀️. I had heard of pidgin but had no idea it was thought of as an actual language as such as the BBC would translate pages into it.

Certainly not an expert but I'm glad I've been enlightened 😂

InWalksBarberalla · 29/08/2024 13:04

I'm just not sure why the BBC thinks its OK to call its 'standarised' version of pidgin Pidgin?

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 13:05

InWalksBarberalla · 29/08/2024 13:04

I'm just not sure why the BBC thinks its OK to call its 'standarised' version of pidgin Pidgin?

Yes... but maybe that's what its speakers call it in which case what else should they do?

HeySummerWhereAreYou · 29/08/2024 13:16

SpidersAreShitheads · 29/08/2024 02:36

Aah I don’t know. It’s quite funny but not because of “oh those Africans talk funny”.

I think it’s because foreign languages are usually wildly different and not really discernible to non-speakers.

In this case it was published on a BBC site and accidentally assumed to be English. The fact that OP didn’t notice is absolutely hilarious.

Pidgin English is fascinating because of the similarities with English. It’s fascinating to see the differences in sentence structure and some of the words. I think when you take a language that has some very similar sounds and words to English, it’s not racist to find it entertaining or humorous seeing how different it is in parts. And as far as I’ve seen on this thread, there are lots of posters who are seeing it for the first time and finding it rather lovely!

Welsh speakers often joke about how amusing some of the Welsh words are in English. This isn’t a thing that’s exclusive to Pidgin English.

I don’t think people are mocking it, or looking down on it. Not at all.

I’ve heard it spoken but never seen it written - I love language so I’m riveted by it.

Also, it has a much gentler tone/sound/structure than the very stiff upper lip of the usual BBC tone so it’s humorous to see something which is usually so formal in a completely different way.

My DD once read a Japanese graphic novel. She was only 9. She read it the western way without realising that it needed to be read from what we would consider to be the back cover. She didn’t even realise, just thought it was a weird story 😂😂🤦🏻‍♀️🤦🏻‍♀️ That was also hilarious. But again, I’m not laughing at the Japanese, just my dippy daughter.

I can remember me and my brother laughing at some German words as they were very literal. I seem to recall pillow translating as “kiss the head” or similar. Language IS funny and that’s ok. As long as no one is insinuating that another language is inferior, and they’re not being derisory, I think it’s fine.

All of this. Very well articulated @SpidersAreShitheads 👏

beetle02 · 29/08/2024 13:23

MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 28/08/2024 22:58

290 MILLION POUNDS , a grant from the government to translate these languages on the BBC.

Not sure it seems so funny now.

A chunk of BBC's revenue comes from its commercial operations which include overseas sales - primarily conducted through BBC Studios, which sells TV shows, formats, and other content to international markets. Including in west Africa , where BBC pidgin runs a large commercial operation.

Educate yourself.

beetle02 · 29/08/2024 13:27

RetroTotty · 29/08/2024 11:03

Just reminded me that many years ago I read that in Pidgin, the late Duke of Edinburgh was described as 'number one fella him belong Mrs Queen' which I thought was EPIC!

Wow! That is EPIC INDEED.

betterangels · 29/08/2024 13:32

Allthatwegotisthispalebluedot · 29/08/2024 08:44

I don’t find Pidgin English funny as a language and I’m baffled that so many posters haven’t heard of it.

I DO find the idea of the stereotypical mumsnetter (white, middle class, husband on six figures with hobby ‘think cycling’, kids in private school, obsessed with Russell group universities and massive salads etc) reading that article and being outraged at the standard of British journalism and posting a thread about it funny though. That IS funny. It absolutely sums up all of the (sometimes unfair) criticisms of this website.

I love it. This thread should never be deleted. I'll be happy to quote this post every time I explain why.

MrsRobinsonsHandprints · 29/08/2024 13:56

beetle02 · 29/08/2024 13:23

A chunk of BBC's revenue comes from its commercial operations which include overseas sales - primarily conducted through BBC Studios, which sells TV shows, formats, and other content to international markets. Including in west Africa , where BBC pidgin runs a large commercial operation.

Educate yourself.

I know all I need to about you as a poster.

'Educate yourself'

Says it all

RickyRoadddx · 29/08/2024 13:58

I made a comment on another thread referring to Pidgin as the OP wasn’t making sense and my comment was deleted.

Other comment# accusing the OP of being on meth were left up, though.

Just a heads up.

RickyRoadddx · 29/08/2024 13:59

Is the term “double Dutch” also offensive?

Arrivapercy · 29/08/2024 14:08

Is Pidgin actually considered a "language"? I assumed more a dialect given that its mutually intelligible with other english dialects, as with scots english or american english.

Word choice is different to typical useage in British English but the vast majority of the vocabulary in that article is English and would be comprehensible by a british english reader.

timenowplease · 29/08/2024 14:24

Arrivapercy · 29/08/2024 14:08

Is Pidgin actually considered a "language"? I assumed more a dialect given that its mutually intelligible with other english dialects, as with scots english or american english.

Word choice is different to typical useage in British English but the vast majority of the vocabulary in that article is English and would be comprehensible by a british english reader.

Yes, that's what I was thinking.

Is there pidgin French or Spanish?

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 14:35

Is there pidgin French or Spanish?

Sure, lots of them, and others, they don't all derive from European languages. There's a long list in here

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin

ErrolTheDragon · 29/08/2024 14:36

Arrivapercy · 29/08/2024 14:08

Is Pidgin actually considered a "language"? I assumed more a dialect given that its mutually intelligible with other english dialects, as with scots english or american english.

Word choice is different to typical useage in British English but the vast majority of the vocabulary in that article is English and would be comprehensible by a british english reader.

I think there's a very distinct difference in the way pidgins (and then creoles) develop vs dialects.

MintyNew · 29/08/2024 14:42

I can honestly say that I have never heard of this language till now

ComtesseDeSpair · 29/08/2024 15:11

Arrivapercy · 29/08/2024 14:08

Is Pidgin actually considered a "language"? I assumed more a dialect given that its mutually intelligible with other english dialects, as with scots english or american english.

Word choice is different to typical useage in British English but the vast majority of the vocabulary in that article is English and would be comprehensible by a british english reader.

Linguists typically define a dialect as characteristic of a particular group of first speakers of a language, whereas a pidgin language isn’t characteristic of a particular group of a first language to any group, but of two or more groups who develop a pidgin as simplified method of communication.

Newsenmum · 29/08/2024 15:12

Skye109 · 28/08/2024 21:29

Oh! Wow. Didn't even know that it was a setting option.
Thanks!

I don’t know why but this cracked me up, you must’ve been so confused 😂

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