To think some people, especially in the past, don't see children as people with any autonomy?

[Lovebeingwithyou]

It was another thread that got me thinking.

But so many times I see on here and in real life grandparents who see their grandchildren as a do over of their own parenting. They want a turn with the baby/child, sometimes with no regard to what's best for the child.

Before anyone jumps on me I'm not saying this about all grandparents. Most are very loving and very supportive. Also I'm not just talking about grandparents, but also more dated styles of parenting too.

Things like expecting newborn babies to simply fall into a routine that suits the parents. They can't be hungry or have a full happy do why are they crying? No acknowledgment that this tiny human might just need to be near their mum or dad and need to be cuddled/fed on demand.

Forcing children to eat disgusting cold meals that they don't like and refusing to let them leave the table.

Not understanding that it's normal for toddlers and young children to sometimes have tantrums and that snacking/shouting and screaming back won't teach them anything.

I could give many more examples. Thankfully there is much more understanding of child development these days but I do still see hear of these sorts of ideas.

There are some very sad negative comments on here about children such as

“ if left to their own devices, most children won't make good decisions about what to eat, what to wear, whether they go to school etc.”
and
“children don’t respect adults”

I don’t agree at all. I think the opposite in fact. I think (ex teacher here) children are born respectful and able to make good decisions with some guidance. I think it’s your version of what constitutes ‘good decisions’ and ‘respect’ that is warped. We adults always think we know best but do we?

This is certainly true of my own DC,their friends, my nieces and nephews and all of the children I’ve taught. They are all polite, respectful, sensible kids who are having to navigate a world of very high pressure in school, scary environmental issues, pandemics, constant bad news, increasing poverty and inequality and the online domain. Most are doing really well considering all of that.

Respect is a two-way street and can only be earned and not demanded.

I meant corporal 🤣 I don’t know why I said capital!

@Devilsmommy it's good that you didn't fear your parents and I know that smacking was used in the past but not all parents were brutes just because they smacked.

I believe that my children respect adults. I say this because they have been well behaved and polite.

I do see bad behaviour but then I always did. Behaviour was a problem in the 80s when I was at school.

lol @MontagueMoo sorry you had that experience.

Sounds like that one belongs on the famous 'cutted up pear' thread 😁

Lovely to see a positive comment about children out of a lot of negative.

I very much agree with what you say and this is my experience.

People only have children in the first place because they want someone to control.

They just call grandparents more controlling because the grandparents try to interfere and take control themselves. Over many generations the control has changed as to what's controlled and how it's done, it's still there.

This is the sort of thing I mean. I know someone who preached this. They regularly boasted how they fed, changed baby then put the baby in its own room, shut the door and didn't come back (or allow the mum to see to the baby) until morning.

No acknowledgment that a baby might have any feelings behind milk or a soiled nappy.

Same person also believe that you spoil a baby by holding it too much.

I don't really understand d how anyone can think like this in this day and age.

Yes i agree with this . I work in a school, and appreciate that things needed to change from the seen and not heard days, but i really worry that things have gone too far the other way.

@FOJN

"I'm always intrigued by the recent past being portrayed as if it was centuries ago, particularly by people who didn't live through it. Children were not being sent up chimneys and fed on bread and water in the 1970's."

I know, some of the comments about the 60's, 70's and 80's crack me up. I think one poster upthread said that "children were seen and not heard" in the 70's. I just hope for her sake and grasp of general knowledge that she meant the 1870's! Jeez.

This. Parents trying to feed children on wartime rations (which lasted well into the 50s) could not afford to indulge their children's food idiosyncrasies.

But that might have been accurate of her own experience in the 70’s, perhaps her parents were very strict and so she thinks that’s normal. I know my dad said his parents had a similar attitude and he was born mid-60’s.

It’s balance. Being seen and not heard, whacked, forced to eat cold food - no. Expecting children to behave, enforcing boundaries and basic respect for adults, letting children express an opinion even if it’s not going to always change an outcome - yes.

Allowing unfettered access to the online world, deferring to their their opinions and wants regardless of consequence and protecting them from all forms of hardship, discomfort and mistake - very bad.

Today’s crop of children and young adults are (not) coping with an unprecedented mental health crisis. Frankly I fear a great many of them will not become functioning adult contributors to society.

For a 10yo to be incapable of going to the corner shop to buy a pint of milk without having the vapours - very sad.

My thoughts exactly and I don't see how anyone in their right minds could argue with it - but don't hold your breath.

I think it was often part of parenting culture in 70s - expecting babies to cry it out and settle and babies in toddler fitting round family bit more- also think some grandparents forget what young children are like with time and then rapidly re-learn.

My IL were certainly better when kids could clearly talk and state their views. Plus bf clearly threw IL and parents - very different to 4 hour feeds and weaning as IL and DP insist was normal at 3 months.

Our parents weren't terrible with plate clearing but Dad remember rationing and felt he had to do it himself despite weight issues because that was part of his childhood.

But agree with PP many not all but many modern parents seem to struggle with family balance and frankly saying no and pandering too much to children - it's a balance and kids not learning how to behave in many environments isn't long term in their interests.

I was responding to “I'm talking more about people not understanding child development, especially with babies and toddlers.”. There are a lot of people on this site giving ridiculous parenting advice where they seem to believe that babies and toddlers are capable of advanced moral reasoning and self-regulation. I think some people find children and their parents inconvenient and irritating, wish they’d all just disappear or behave like robots, which is a bit bizarre when they choose this site for online socialising.

@Hucklemuckle I was worried my comment would be taken that way. I'm talking about in relation to feelings. As I do with others , I will see them as an extension of myself in order to treat people how I would expect to be treated. If that makes sense.
In all other ways, my child is her own person with her own likes and dislikes. But I will not force her to be okay with things she is not okay with.. because I wouldn't do that to myself, so why do that to a child ?

How annoying, someone quoted me but was deleted! Hope it wasn't my actual post.

It isn’t “policing” it is safeguarding.

Their needs, should not come second. They should be fed and warm and safe and loved. They should be taken to the doctor when ill and the dentist when needed. They should be educated and appropriately clothed.
The problem is that we’re not very good at telling the difference between needs and wants any more. We have so much stuff and even the poorest and cleverest of us still struggle to separate needs and desires.

I'm in my 60s as are most of my friends, some are in their 70s. Not one has any lingering issues from our childhood days. We all knew we were loved and our parents had our best interests at heart - but they didn't make us the sole focus of their lives and pander to our every whim. I have also spend time with people in their 80s/90s who have very fond memories of their childhoods.

Interesting how the people who weren't actually there at the time are always the experts!

I haven’t said anything about pandering to every whim, at all. Funny how everyone who doesn’t agree with certain parenting styles thinks that we mean that we should give children everything they want. I said there is a middle ground. You don’t have to mollycoddle, neither is it good to be completely emotionally unavailable thinking that makes a child resilient and independent -it doesn’t. You don’t have to give children a clip round the ear either. As pp said, respect works both ways. Not every child has unresolved issues from their childhood, either then or now, but a lot do. Your generation wasn’t necessarily better.

Besides which, I’m speaking of my own experience of the people in my family who are now in the 60’s like my mum, who whilst she had some very fond memories of her childhood, as did I as a child of the 90s, there were many things that could have been done better. My mum tells me stories about the way she was brought up, how her mother parented her and it makes me understand why she did some of the things she did with her own kids.

She says she had a happy childhood, but some of the things I know about her and what she says suggest it wasn’t always great and she isn’t very self aware.

Your own experience could be different.

But basically you are saying grandparents are not doing what they parents want nothing to do with the child/ren

I agree. I grew up on tough love and it's not something I'd put my children through.

Recently we met dhs family at a country park. Ds (9) hurt his leg (fine just a bump) he wanted to go home. (Think he was bored) I said no because we were spending time with family. So he sat with me quietly and I gave him a cuddle. Later mil asked if he would behave like that at school (meaning asking to go home) and I said probably not and she said 'well they probably don't pander to him'!!

I'm sure I should have told him to stop being a baby and go play 🙄